Tax on goods from EU surely not correct?

[floridapalmtree]

Husband has just had messages from DHL saying they will not deliver goods until £67 tax and import duty is paid. This is on clothing of £240. So 20% added. The items were ordered on 29 December so before Brexit exit.

Sister in law also ordered some goods from same company, also on 29 December, which were delivered yesterday but didn't have any tax to pay, think she may have spent less though.

AIBU that this is too much money? or is this just the way things are going to be post Brexit?

I work for DHL and this is totally normal. It's not about the date that you ordered, it's based on when your item arrived into the UK. DHL will have paid your fee to customs to get it released quickly and are now charging it back to you along with an admin fee. Sometimes items get caught by customs and sometimes they get missed and you get a freebie. Definitely not a scam though.

MrsMia
But if the seller was not VAT registered, they cannot have netted it off

Good grief, and she was OK with just openly admitting that?

I've heard plenty of people say similar. People are much more willing to say it now than ten years ago.

However, HMRC appear to have thrown a spanner in the works and decided to insist that firms selling to the UK register for VAT here. This isn't strictly a Brexit issue as they have applied this to all countries of the world, despite it being a highly irregular and unusual practice.

Yes - Financial Times:

On January 1 the UK implemented a change in the rules for foreign mail-order sellers, insisting they register for UK VAT for any items sold to UK customers, collect the correct sales tax on behalf of the government and pay the money to HM Revenue & Customs.

The changes were not directly linked to Brexit because the UK could have applied its existing rules for non-EU mail orders...

The confusion among smaller companies is so great that some EU companies have refused to supply UK customers because they are under the mistaken belief that they need to apply tariffs...

www.ft.com/content/bae02f57-a648-45fd-a774-6b341aa59caf

So we want to become a great trading nation again and so instead of having no barriers with our neighbours, we decide to reintroduce them to make it as difficult as it is to trade with the rest of the world.

So 20% VAT on imported goods from the EU. But surely the seller would then have deducted the VAT rate that applies in the country of origin? I've had several Amazon and eBay orders cancelled or a message stating that the item can't be delivered to my [UK] address since about the middle of December. Thanks Brexiters.

But surely the seller would then have deducted the VAT rate that applies in the country of origin?

They wouldn't have to pay vat in their country. However, there is nothing to stop them charging UK customers the same price as the VAT inclusive price they charge domestic EU customers. More profit.

Pennies finally dropping

@AnnoyedByAlfieBear
I work for DHL and this is totally normal. It's not about the date that you ordered, it's based on when your item arrived into the UK
The new rules will apply to all sales that have a time of supply for VAT purposes of 1 January 2021 or later.

No, HRMC clearly states that it only applies to goods ordered after the 1st of Jan. The quote below is from their website.

"For example, if an order is placed and payment received from the customer on 31 December 2020 then the new rules will not apply, even if dispatch and delivery take place after 1 January 2021.*

It might be the "payment received" clause which has triggered the charge for OP. Quite often the goods aren't despatched until the payment clears, which is not always immediate.

The important thing to remember is that this will hit the poorest hardest.

Coincidentally they are the ones who voted for Brexit.

Karma. It is cool.

Plenty of rich people voted for Brexit too. But the Rees-Moggs of the world, who have already made money from it, can afford the VAT.

The UK import VAT applies to gifts as well
so anybody with friends or family in the EU is now likely to pay 20% plus clearance
when Birthday and other presents arrive

Which Leave voters will I assume pay willingly, as the price of Brexit/democracy.

However, there is nothing to stop them charging UK customers the same price as the VAT inclusive price they charge domestic EU customers. More profit

This is true but unlikely. I've just ordered from Sweden. No tax on item, so 20% cheaper then tax payable on entry into UK.

Most businesses will sort it if they want to carry on selling to UK.

We are still selling happily to the EU.

[quote SusannaSpider]@AnnoyedByAlfieBear
I work for DHL and this is totally normal. It's not about the date that you ordered, it's based on when your item arrived into the UK
The new rules will apply to all sales that have a time of supply for VAT purposes of 1 January 2021 or later.

No, HRMC clearly states that it only applies to goods ordered after the 1st of Jan. The quote below is from their website.

"For example, if an order is placed and payment received from the customer on 31 December 2020 then the new rules will not apply, even if dispatch and delivery take place after 1 January 2021.*[/quote]
That might be the case, but in practice that's not what I've seen happening.

@AnnoyedByAlfieBear it's very definitely what is happening; your employer are hounding me with texts, emails and phone calls to get me to pay VAT and tariffs before they'll deliver items ordered and paid for before 1.1.21. It's p*ssing me and the retailer off quite a lot.

This comment assumes that no Black, Asian or mixed race Britons voted Leave. (Untrue - many must have - and some I know did.) [] It just repeats the old insult that all Leave voters are racist and that racism is their only possible motive for voting.

Assuming someone can't be racist based on their race is just as racist as assuming anything else about them based on their race.

Surely ?

And it's been documented that some people of Indian heritage voted leave to increase immigration from India over that from the EU. Which looks likely to happen, so a smart move.

@MrsMiaWallis

However, there is nothing to stop them charging UK customers the same price as the VAT inclusive price they charge domestic EU customers. More profit

This is true but unlikely. I've just ordered from Sweden. No tax on item, so 20% cheaper then tax payable on entry into UK.

Most businesses will sort it if they want to carry on selling to UK.

We are still selling happily to the EU.

I guess it depends on the increased cost of doing business with the UK combined with profit margins and volume of sales.

A smaller company is likely to charge more for goods shipped to the UK as they have smaller volumes, possibly smaller profit margins and the increased costs are a larger percentage of their margins.

I am actively looking for non-UK companies to replace the UK ones I used to buy from. The increased cost that I have seen on the likes of Amazon.co.uk means it's not an economical option for me anymore (I'm in the EU). I have moved to amazon.de.

That might be the case, but in practice that's not what I've seen happening.

We got a parcel from Stationery Pal (who are bloody fab btw) this morning, which has been tripping round since the middle of December. They are HK based, package went from China to Belgium to UK. But really oddly it had a Royal Mail tracked 48 label over the international label. Anyway no charges and no customs labelling.

I am actively looking for non-UK companies to replace the UK ones I used to buy from. The increased cost that I have seen on the likes of Amazon.co.uk means it's not an economical option for me anymore (I'm in the EU). I have moved to amazon.de

That's of course your choice. Our EU customers are still ordering from us and it's not costing them any more that it was before.

That's of course your choice. Our EU customers are still ordering from us and it's not costing them any more that it was before.

Can you talk us through what paperwork you are having to provide in order to supply your EU customers? Can you tell us which forms and how long it takes you? Are you VAT registered?

That would be very helpful for those of us who do not yet know how to do this.

Haffiana
Use the proper information
then your stuff will get through
www.gov.uk/export-goods

This has been on the cards since June 2016 so presumably you are signed up for the HMRC updates

@FelicityPike

Sounds about right. 20% charge. Remember, people voted for this!

Yup. Morons.

We got a parcel from Stationery Pal (who are bloody fab btw) this morning, which has been tripping round since the middle of December. They are HK based, package went from China to Belgium to UK. But really oddly it had a Royal Mail tracked 48 label over the international label. Anyway no charges and no customs labelling.

Well you got lucky and something has gone wrong then (or possible stationary pal have a under the counter deal with Hong Kong Post). I lived in Hong Kong for many years and have many friends there. Sending parcels between there and here was always difficult in terms of customs but as long as you marked it gift under £30 it usually went through, in recent years it became much more difficult and I regularly get gifts from friends impounded by HMRC and have to pay arbitrarily arrived at customs charges on them, often more than the gift is worth. As we are now a third country HMRC will treat gifts from EU countries no differently and I gather those posting from the EU are encountering this bureaucracy already,

I have given up sending actual parcels to my niece in Australia and EH in Thailand. The DHL letter demanding ridiculous amounts of money before they will deliver is inevitable.

Royal Mail have targets for delivery, including their deliveries from International destinations. Indeed because the International postal union is a one country one vote system these obligations are onerous on the countries who receive most post from overseas, a way for the third world to leverage power over the first. In future of course the combined power of EU postal admins will not be there to help the U.K. in those negotiations, they may even join the leveraging. That was the reason that Royal Mail had to slap on a tracked label to make sure your package did not languish further in an ordinary bag and incurred fines on them for failing to meet delivery targets (tracked packages go in the first bags so they have priority to access transport and don’t get held up by any delays). All cost to Royal Mail of course.....

Welcome to third country status