To wonder why the children of very hardworking/talented parents can turn out very lazy?

[ReallySpicyCurry]

Just something I was discussing with a friend recently. We both know various people whose parents were exceptionally hardworking, and/or who pulled themselves up in the world due to an unusual level of intellect or talent. I'm not saying they're all millionaires or anything like that, but their efforts have enabled them to create notably better lives and opportunities for their children, and they're looked on as success stories.

Now the children are adults, and have a really lazy view of the world and of work. They will only work the bare minimum they're capable of, and only if they have to, and anything that requires the least bit of effort is looked on with suspicion. They moan a lot and act suprised about having to do things that other people take for granted as part of adult life.

Obviously it's not everyone, but it was interesting that we've both noticed the same thing in very different people - though maybe it's just highlighted by the success of their parents, but as my friend (who has done a lot of online dating) pointed out, even when she was dating men like this, it got to the point where nine times out of ten it turned out he'd had parents who built their own business out of scratch or something, yet he would be moaning about working 25 hours a week.

There's a book or an academic who has this theory that as a rule, the most successful people are those who had difficult childhoods - poverty, abuse, emotional insecurity etc. I think I saw something on Twitter and it was a list of examples. The theory was that these people are highly motivated to change things. I think. I can't remember but something like that.

I once read that just about the only thing that prisoners and British prime ministers have in common is that they're both about two to three more times more likely than the general population to have had a parent die during their childhood.

Like most things, there's no answer
My father was a very hard working successful man

My mother is a very determined and organised woman..

I have none of these qualities but I did when I was at school.

My sister showed no promise at school and is successful in adulthood.

The good bits of my career have mostly been luck and if I won the lottery, I would pack it in really fast.

For me, it's a bill paying exercise whereas my sister really cares what she does and finds it interesting.

My DP has a friend like this. The parents are self-made millionaires and spent their lives working extremely hard. Even losing everything once and having to start again from scratch.

Their 4 kids are incredibly lazy, all still live at home in their 30s being waited on hand and foot. Every job any of them has had has been provided by a family member. They’ve simply never had to work for anything so haven’t bothered

Because they have never had to work hard for good things in life so no motivation to...

But also because life isn't always about being 'successful' and a 'hard worker'. It doesn't necessarily make you happy.

Lots of 'hard working' people are miserable so why put yourself through that to get burnt out and depressed

It’s well recognised

“Clogs to clogs in three generations” (Lancashire). Scotland has the phrase ‘the father buys, the son builds, the grandchild sells, and his son begs’, while the Japanese version is ‘rice paddies to rice paddies in three generations'

Surely this just part if the Nature / Nurture debate ?

We have a variation on this topic, it puzzles me.
We were broke, I come from a very humble family. But ALL worked and steadily.
We worked hard and DCs went to VG local schools. Just lucky where we lived.
DS is not bookish, joined Army promoted a little, could have taken commission but refused. Now working as a nurse, did a Diploma refuses to study and convert to degree, now timed out.
DD acceptable A-levels, Uni Upper 2nd degree, so quite good, pleased so far.
Then took a simple job with no prospect of promotion at all. Worked solid on shifts never odd days off. Nine years on, now thinking about a change.
Both so so likeable, but not real ambition to really push on.

Is it Me?

This is interesting as I come from similar parents - both started from very poor backgrounds (one a refugee, the other from an upper middle class family but the father had a gambling problem and ran off when young). For me I feel it's had the opposite effect - they've both emphasised repeatedly the importance of money, how awful it is to be worried about money, how you never want to be with no money etc. as we were growing up. I'd say my middle sibling lacks drive, but still has a great career (admittedly largely due to being trained in something my parents put her on the course for). My younger sibling is incredibly motivated and entrepreneurial. And I went the more traditional route of academic success then City career, and am a high flyer earnings and career wise. Among my friends and acquaintances it's similar, I don't know many people who are very unmotivated to be honest, so suspect it's maybe more down to schooling and the type of school you are sent to? Interesting what people are saying though about being encouraged to focus on interests and not think about careers strategically, I had the opposite experience to an extent (supported to follow interests, but always aware of the importance of earning good money).

I think for us it is partly due to the fact my parents were always explicit that once we finished education we were on our own financially. Now we are adults they've actually backtracked and have been happy for us to live with them at various points, but we weren't raised with that expectation at all.

I recognise this. I had a charmed, want for nothing childhood and my parents were very dedicated and driven. I'm not lazy per se but I don't have their drive and dedication.

I've made the terrible error with one of my dc, they have also had the same upbringing as I did, wanted for nothing and now they're so flipping lazy. They do work but it's the minimum and still expect to be cleaned up after. I blew my stack recently about their level of wanting to be waited on. But it's my own fault, I never made them get a part time job when they were 16, I just paid for everything.

It's bitten me firmly on the arse hasn't it

Because they probably haven't had to do much in their lives because their parents have money and are successful. Also, they know they will have parents money to fall back on and they will inherjt it at some point. I know 2 sisters like that. The eldest is probably worse.

I was one of those kids and i really struggled as a very young adult to manage working etc. I have managed to pull myself together though now. One of the reasons for my attitude is having controlling parents that don't let you make mistakes etc growing up. Also both my parents worked so hard, they didn't really have time to invest in calmly helping us kids find our way.

Maybe they looked at what their parents had to forfeit for their hard work and decided it wasn't for them.
We are all different, want different lifestyles, and see success in different ways. It's not all about career, hard work and material wealth.
Some people would see the offspring as successful.

@SionnachRua

From a teachers perspective I've noticed that some very hardworking parents turn into lawnmowers when it comes to their kids. Any minor hurdle must be cut down, child must never have to work hard or experience minor struggle - and if they struggle (which everyone does) there must be an issue to fix for them. It's not good imo.

Of course not all parents are like that but just something I've noticed over the years.

This! We have six kids between us, they all have a fantastic work ethic but we were quite tough with them in terms of not only them helping out at home but also that they were encouraged to have part time jobs by age 16 at the latest, and to save up for what they wanted. I sometimes wonder if we went too far the other way, but they all seem to have turned out ok 🤷🏻‍♀️

You can have the opposite too. One example I always think of it the Packhams. I don’t want to cast aspersions on mum and dad Packham but from reading Chris packhams book he had quite a standard ordinary background and yet his mum and dad produced him (leading naturalist, very successful and knowledgeable presenter) and his sister Jenny Packham, amazingly talented and dress maker to A list celebs. How did they produce two such children talented top of their respective (and utterly different) fields?!
I want to know the secret

IIRC Madonna was moaning about this in her vogue interview last year. Her two eldest dc's have grown up in the lap of luxury and she said they don't have any drive. Whereas her younger children, who didn't have privileged starts, were more driven.

Both DH and I had quite difficult upbringings, where we weren’t encouraged to do well or be ambitious. Maybe because of that, we’ve both been extremely driven in our careers and became successful and thus able to give DD what I think of as a privileged childhood. When she was young I honestly thought that she wasn’t particularly bright, as she was late with several milestones and didn’t shine at school, but to our surprise she has turned out to be immensely hard-working, driven and successful in a very competitive environment (medicine). And she is good-hearted and generous with it. We did emphasise the importance of helping others and independence when she was growing up, but I think part of the way your children turn out is down to luck as much as good parenting.

I think it depends a lot on the parenting. In DH's very privileged family you see branches where they live the high life, living off the family fortune(s), and the younger generations don't seem to be very motivated. In DH's branch there has always been more focus on education and a career, with the family money there to fall back on and make life easier, but not to live off.

As a general thing, within this (massive) family, I've noticed that where the mother was a professional herself, and kept her career, the children have ended up exceptionally hard-working, and successful in their own right. Where the mother was more of trophy wife (chosen for beauty/breeding/own fortune only) and did the debutante thing before settling down as a housewife and mother, with no intention to ever pursue a career, the children float around in a dreamworld (girls having similar aspirations to a domestic life, whilst the men seem to flit from job to job (art galleries, clubs etc). Whether this is nature or nurture (or a mix) I couldn't say.

When it's self-made business people, I've noticed (on shows like Rich House Poor House, so hardly academic research) that the attitude is to smooth the way for their children, over compensating for their own more difficult upbringings, perhaps?

@megletthesecond

IIRC Madonna was moaning about this in her vogue interview last year. Her two eldest dc's have grown up in the lap of luxury and she said they don't have any drive. Whereas her younger children, who didn't have privileged starts, were more driven.

I used to do a sport with her daughter and she was the most entitled, rude cow I’ve ever met

@Turquoisesofa

It’s well recognised

“Clogs to clogs in three generations” (Lancashire). Scotland has the phrase ‘the father buys, the son builds, the grandchild sells, and his son begs’, while the Japanese version is ‘rice paddies to rice paddies in three generations'

Love those quotes/maxims and think they are very true.

I find it fascinating to look back through history and the number of wealthy and/or landed aristocratic families where a feckless son inherited and blew the whole lot happens regularly. Same goes for those who dragged themselves up and made money, built a fabulous estate for it to bite the dust within a couple of generations.

Dh's grandfather worked for a wealthy, titled family, the man he worked for was incredibly hard working and fair, the son inherited, he wasn't hard working nor particularly bright and got taken for a fool by a well known con man, lost everything, the house, land, and his mother ended her days in a council house.

I think sometimes it's an illusion based on changing circumstances.

I know a lot of people in my dad's generation who believe that their talent and hard work made them successful. They're not wrong, but they also had huge advantages behind them, which have largely been eroded.

I'll never forget talking to a senior man in my department who was about to retire, who talked about competitive it had been in his day. He explained how he had to buy a small terraced house in Cambridge during his first job after his PhD, because he wanted to settle down with his wife, and they had to save hard on his lecturer's salary to afford the deposit. He had already beaten out ten other qualified applicants to get his job. Of course, he didn't have any debt from university, because it was free. He was in his mid 20s when they bought their house.

Nowadays, those 'small terraced houses' can cost upwards of 550k and are totally outside the budget of anyone on a first job. Numbers of people studying at university have exploded, resulting in far, far more qualified candidates, and they all have university debts. Those 'first jobs' don't come along (on average) until people are much older.

I'm sure there are similar patterns in other fields. When people in my parents' generation wonder why we're not successful and why we don't just work hard like they did, I always get them to think about whether or not they're actually comparing like with like.

I remember an interview Dolly Parton did where she said she'd told her relatives and their children that she would make sure they had everything they needed to live but she wouldn't provide them with everything they wanted, those things they would have to work for. I always thought that was very wise.

There are so many ways to measure these things though.

My best friend had enormously successful "self made" parents. Winners from the grammar school system, always worked FT and much more, jumped several rungs of the social ladder. The kids very much grew up feeling they were not good enough, and they didn't matter. My friend and her husband put their DC first in everything - they help with homework, they are home for bedtime, they supporting DC in their hobbies. From the outside it might look like they are lazy/unambitious but I think they too are just wanting better for their DC than they had themselves. They just define it differently.

Or how the children of lazy parents can turn out focussed and hard working...

I probably fit this stereotype.
My viewpoint though is that I want to do something I love. I'm not bothered about income as long as I can survive.
Instead I'm a penny pincher. I buy reduced food, sale things and avoid things I don't need.
Dad was very successful and raised us comfortably. Mum dedicated her life to raising us so no career involved.
I went to private school, had a good upbringing but I work for minimum wage because the job I do is something that is just me. I'm really good at it and love it. I feel lucky to be able to look forward to work every day and not dread it.
That is a lot more important to me than being perceived as successful 🤷

Perhaps they dont percieve their parents as happy.