To think people need to stop comparing the UK and New Zealand?

[RaspberryCoulis]

We have a population of 66.5 million, they have 4.9 million.

We have an area of 240,000 sq km, they have 270,000 sq km. (So less than 10% of the population in a bigger area).

Their biggest city has 1.5 million people. London has 9 million people. Their next biggest city, Christchurch, is smaller than Birmingham, Glasgow, Bristol, Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Edinburgh and Leicester.

And they're 2000 miles from their nearest big neighbour. (Australia). We're joined onto one country (Ireland) and 2000 miles from London takes in all of Western Europe, Iceland, a good chunk of Eastern Europe and a bit of North Africa.

So can we stop with the silly comparisons now?

I think this subject got thrashed to within an inch of it's life just a day or two ago..

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4121490-To-be-shocked-at-how-normal-everything-looks-in-New-Zealand?msgid=103203848#103203848

The OP is right, though.

Oh, please do!

One thing that is undeniable is that the countries with the best record of dealing with COVID have all had women leaders.

You don’t have to be able to make a direct comparison to despair at the chasm in the quality of leadership between the two countries.

Completely agree with you. Saying ‘both countries are islands so could have done the same thing’ makes as much sense as saying ‘Well, the Steps concert is cancelled, but why not watch Metallica instead? They’re both bands.’

@Riapia

One thing that is undeniable is that the countries with the best record of dealing with COVID have all had women leaders.

I think we need to wait and see on that, especially in the light of the way Germany's figures have been heading in recent weeks.

TBF several countries in the Far East with male leaders certainly have and continue to have a very good record.

Yup, NZ are doing way better because they're led by a woman. That'll be it. Nothing whatsoever to do with a tiny population and a very remote geography.

I think population density is a red herring, TBH.

But not being an international transport hub and getting most to all of your imports by plane or boat does seem to have played a role in the early stages of the pandemic in terms of which countries were hit before they realised it.

Recognise the differences but it is reasonable to compare prompt action and competence with inaction leading to needless deaths (my estimate is at least 10,000).

Do you really think the only reason we are doing badly in the UK is that we are densely populated?

Or could it maybe have something to do with the fact we locked down too late, didn't get a decent track and trace system in place, didn't support people to isolate, didn't enforce isolation upon returning from abroad, sent schools back unsafely, did eat out to help out, went back to work, imposed a ridiculous tier system which doesn't enforce no travel between tiers and is therefore pointless? Any of those things?

I think the countries which have done well are those which broadly have healthier populations, of which New Zealand is one, according to international rankings; and frankly if there’s one thing I do think needs a fuller inquiry once this is over is quite why the U.K. has such an unhealthy population - by all accounts every other MNer seems to be clinically vulnerable with several vulnerable family members, which is frankly shocking. And I don’t think you can put all of the blame at the door of the underfunded NHS: underfunding doesn’t in itself cause diabetes or asthma or heart disease or obesity or all the health issues which seem to pop up most commonly.

Jacinda is in a class of her own though, even encouraging people not to get all vigilante on their neighbours for breaking covid rules etc. I would have no hesitation in following her orders , no matter what they were because she seems so sane.

As long as people who say you can't compare UK to NZ weren't wittering on about Sweden most of last year.

New Zealand approach has been vindicated throughout this, the Swedish approach hasn't.

@Riapia

One thing that is undeniable is that the countries with the best record of dealing with COVID have all had women leaders.

An article in the Times disapproved this.

Ok then OP. Compare the UK to Vietnam instead.

Yes! It's bloody ridiculous all this pearl clutching and questioning of 'Why can't Boris be more like Jacinda?' - well OK, he could have been a lot better, but to talk of us 'shutting our borders' is insane! I expect 99% of the time you fly in to NZ to go to NZ. You can fly in to the UK to go to shit loads of other places.

@oneglassandpuzzled I noticed most of the good ones had coalition governments, but then Belgium has been one of the poorer ones.

Alternatively, why not focus on what we think is going right (yeah, I know), over here, and what we think rates as a 'could do better' or, 'holy fuck Batman, if we don't sort this out we're screwed?' About here. . . where we are. . .

@EugenesAxe

Yes! It's bloody ridiculous all this pearl clutching and questioning of 'Why can't Boris be more like Jacinda?' - well OK, he could have been a lot better, but to talk of us 'shutting our borders' is insane! I expect 99% of the time you fly in to NZ to go to NZ. You can fly in to the UK to go to shit loads of other places.

Nobody should have been flying anywhere since this shitshow started (without enforced quarantine). We wouldn't be in this mess.

You don't have to bring the leaders gender into it but there's a difference between idiots and people who took it seriously from the beginning.

Agree but it's a very tired old argument that has been debated on here literally hundreds of times. I think the vast majority of Mumsnet agrees already.

@Riapia

One thing that is undeniable is that the countries with the best record of dealing with COVID have all had women leaders.

I’d thought this too

Goodness yes, I agree OP. Our government don’t seem to have a handle on this at all but if what NZ achieved was so easy then we’d be in a significantly better place globally. Sick of hearing about bloody NZ. The only dramatic difference I can see between them and us was shutting the borders.

Um, just to say, you're hearing about 'bloody NZ' on here. Etc. So if people don't want to hear it, don't bloody go on about it!

'Bloody NZ', is just getting on with it.