To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

Were Jacinda Ardern PM of the UK I don't think she could have completely stopped and eradicated COVID, although she may have done a better job than the current incumbent as she was paying attention from the start instead of sorting out a divorce and contemplating who to fuck next. But were Boris PM of NZ, I'm pretty sure he'd have ballsed it up.

'Doesn’t matter what you say borris pr on here will slick up for him. If borris killed all dogs they would still justify it'

No no I wouldn't 'slick up for borris' killing dogs at all. I would say the same if Jezza himself was in charge. You can't compare us to NZ, we'll you can but it makes you look very silly. Try Spain, Italy and France. Similar population sizes and densities.

@MarshaBradyo

I hope that by now people understand that international hubs would naturally be hit very early on and with asymptomatic transmission.

Unlike NZ

You can close down these hubs.

We did not, we left open flights from all over the world in Feb/March, even then we carried on with an open skies policy.

My brother came an went throughout the lockdown (work related) no checks no nothing.

We then got the infection rates down and then opened up too much too soon.
I remember Devi Sridhar saying in July that England is opening up before it sees what the effects of the previous relaxation has done.

I'm sure that if our population was 1/10 of what it is and we were geographically remote, we'd have been able to achieve the same.

Simple answer is NZ and others treated it straight away like Sars outbreak. Swift quick action, lock down and hotel quarantine for all arrivals (mostly NZ nationals unless special exemptions).

UK treated like a new strain of flu in the beginning by the time they realised it was too late to act and most fright is driven rather than unaccompanied.

New Zealand got it right by hard and fast which they continue to do so now mostly live normally. UK still refuses to ban travel except in rare circumstances (Denmark mink) and tells people to quarantine but not enforced.

Having travelled to NZ I prefer there approach!

I always think that people who say 'look how well NZ have done with Covid compared to the UK' just aren't very bright tbh. There are so many factors at play, it's just basic critical thinking to understand they are not comparable.

1. It’s summer there now.

1. They have a population of 4.8 million (which is half the population of London) on two islands which have a larger land mass than the whole of the U.K. More sheep than people!

1. They are an isolated island with a tiny fraction of the U.K.’s movement of people and air/sea traffic.

1. The country is run by a sensible woman.

It’s drives me mad when people try to compare us.

Like others have said, we should have had a completely harsh lockdown, cracked down on serial rule breakers, introduced masks from the very beginning and completely shut our borders. Schools and universities should not have been opened until we had eradicated the virus, not doing half measures. We still haven't learned, even now.....

CV isn't seasonal.

How many people on here would have complained bitterly if they couldn't go on holiday or visit relatives abroad, enough people complain about being 'muzzled' and how they shouldn't be made to wear masks or not see family in this country, no way would they have sat quietly being told they couldn't leave the country for over a year, possibly two.

@wizzbangfizz

Population density - surely not difficult to understand utterly incomparable.

Exactly. Why do people find this so hard to understand?

The other thing that annoys me is the shutting of borders comparison.
NZ shit their borders and they’re congratulated for being proactive.
If we shut our borders we’d be called imperialist racists.

Shut obviously!

@Godimabitch

The acted quickly and fiercely. We're a country of ditherers.

I think a massive problem here and America have been the population complaining about their "rights" being taken away. Everyone complaining about not being able to do what they want and Boris doesn't have the balls to say tough shit so didn't want to implement restrictions and eased them too early.

Absolutely agree with this. --China forced its citizens to comply with severe lockdowns, it worked. --NZ government used their isolation well and the population complied with the requests, it worked --UK is densely populated, people travel more than in many countries, we have large transport hubs so a lot of through travel and, quite frankly, a lot of fuckwits who think their rights are more important than complying with guidelines. Add those to a government that is trying to please rather than having the balls to make unpopular decisions. It has not worked

Even compared to countries with a similar population density we have done very badly.

The dithering for most of March was embarrassing. We had stark pre warning of what was to come when Italy was ravaged and all the government did was say ‘wash your hands’.
Then it was ‘if you are Ill stay at home for 7 days’. Then a few days later ‘if someone if ill whole household isolate for 14 days’ then a full week after that proper lockdown.

I refute that this is hindsight- at the time people were already starting to do their own isolation, I certainly didn’t see my parents during March prior to lockdown because of the risk.

Swift decisive action would have made all the difference.

Then lockdown was lifted as hundreds a day were still dying!

NZ also had a clear 4 Tier system from the start- people know what the restrictions are and the exit strategy for those restrictions.

Our government went from ‘stay home’ to ‘stay alert’ to the peri peri system that never got seen again, to hands face space eat out, to local lockdowns with their own individual rules, to tiers, to national ‘lockdown’ where there is still work and school, to new tier rules, to creating Tier 4.

Is it surprising people have got fed up with the constant numberwang back forth and just decided to do their own thing based on their own risk?

If you a person who thinks this couldn’t have been handled far far better and the government have done their best...well you must not have eyes nor brains in your head.

People generally travel to NZ for recreation not business. It was always going to be easier to shut that country down in the early stages and not affect the economy.

Exactly. Why do people find this so hard to understand?

Not sure.

So with regards population density and the eyerolls, can someone do the maths for me?

Infection death rates here in direct comparison to those in NZ?

I think that some countries have far less mingling than places like Europe/us etc.
Lots of places you work/live/educate/shop in your town and your whole family also loves there. There’s no real need to go anywhere else. In the U.K etc you might live in a town, work in a city an hour away, you family loves the other side of the country so you are back and forth on visits, you child goes to school in anOther town etc so there’s a lot more mingling and inter crossing of people.

which country IS the best comparison for the UK?

Whilst their government does seem to have done a good job don't forget that it is currently summer in NZ when diseases like Covid are a lot less prevalent. Perhaps compare these pictures to pictures of the UK in the summer when most of us were able to get out and about, visit the beach, only wear masks on public transport etc.

@Yohoheaveho

which country IS the best comparison for the UK?

I would say a country like Germany or France. Perhaps Manhattan.

@Yohoheaveho

which country IS the best comparison for the UK?

Japan, an Island, heavily populated, industrialized, elderly population, everything shipped in, flight hub for the region.

This government have failed to impose lockdowns properly.
Honestly if there were police road blocks and a two thousand pound fine, do you think people would comply....

Failure to take decisive and harsh lockdown, when it was needed, and also when people were more willing to comply. That was our ( bumbling boris and his fucking useless friends) mistake.

My neighbors have daily visitors...do you think they would get fined if I reported them?

@Yohoheaveho

which country IS the best comparison for the UK?

This is a better question and I’d say same as pp - look at Germany, France, NYC

But also Italy possibly for level of travel from China - I haven’t looked at numbers