To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

The biggest problem here is unregulated self isolation. The original isolation of people from Wuhan in a secure hotel should have been the way to go. The countries that have got hold of CV have state administered isolation in hotel facilities, no visitors, no leaving the room, in house medical personnel to check up on them etc. This is paid for by the individual so people have to factor into their travel costs in terms of financial and time. Allowing people to go home on public transport via the supermarket etc was always ridiculous.

We had a holiday booked in the far east in Marxh 2020, we were watching it unfold from December 2019, there is no way the government was caught unaware they chose not to act, not to respond proactively.

At the end of the day the government fucked up big time. We have even got a New England virus. Major fuck up

@EarringsandLipstick

Huge country, small population, significantly dispersed, and it's about a 3 hour flight to anyone.

Of course they can do it - no-one can get in or out.

It's not comparable with eg Europe

Exactly, they’re not a business hub like we are. Sadly closing the borders would never have been practical here.

'I have close school friends who live over there. I've been seeing photos of normality for months. They had a proper lockdown including closing the border.'

Jesus. Have you read the thread? They are a tiny population miles from anywhere. For example The Isles of scilly are tier 1. They have the same gov as us you know. Are you seriously suggesting the Isles of scilly's lockdown was 'proper' and the rest of the UK wasn't or do you think population size may be relevant?

[quote Bellieberg]@GoldenLabbie I agree - we're an island and could and should have done the same.[/quote]
I agree.

But can you imagine the furore if we'd done just that?

People keep thinking the UK did something specifically wrong, we are a tiny highly packed island.

68 million people on a small rock, density is what effects spread of viruses so comparing us to very mildly populated countries like New Zealand or the USA isnt remotely fair.

Basically if you turn countries into houses:
If you have a cold and live in a studio flat with 6 people you are likely all going to get it, if you have a cold and live in buckingham palace with 6 other people (and dont all cram in the same room) they likely wont get it - why, simply space, its also the reason viruses decimate the lower classes first where overcrowding is more of an issue.

NZ have a grown up running the country.

Whilst the goverenment have made a lot of mistakes and I was amazed that we didn't even start half heartedly quarantining people coming into the uk until June (and even then they can stay with family, use public transport to get to their place of quarantine etc - nothing like the very strict enforced quarantine in say, NZ, Australia or south Africa) the constant comparisons to NZ were kind of irrelevant and out of date by about April. Im pretty sure Covid was already here and circulating before any sort of lockdown was proposed. The fact that we have one of the busiest international airports in the world means the genie was already out of the bottle probably in January or February (ski season). And so we weren't starting on the same footing.
As a comparison -
Some cancers, if detected very early respond well to treatment and the person can fully recover. The same cancer if not detected or treated until it has spread to multiple organs will not respond in the same way, if given the same, or even much more aggressive treatment.

Yes, let compare apples and pears, because they are so alike!

Much more space than here but also no incompetent, reckless government or British sense of exceptionlism and arrogance.

New Zealand is really conscious of bio security even in normal times - they have strict phytosanitary controls at all points of entry and a population that is very aware of the vulnerability of their native flora and fauna to imported disease. They know that a single microorganism, seed or insect could be devastating. This translated to being very quick to recognise the risk that COVID posed, willing to act, and having the infrastructure to lock down fast and hard. They were ready because they’re always ready - preventing imported disease is a national priority. In most of the world it isn’t.

'Much more space than here but also no incompetent, reckless government or British sense of exceptionlism and arrogance.'

Oh do France, Germany Spain and Italy have a 'reckless' government too? because those with similar demographics are all sadly in the same boat.

JA has had it piss easy due to a teeny population, lucky her.

They locked down early, didn’t dither, closed their borders, were clear and strict, the population trusted and obeyed their government who led by example. That whole Cummings and Barnard Castle fiasco and subsequent government support completely Undermined any credibility the government had and opened the doors to people doing what the hell they wanted.

I have a feeling it won't be so great there for the whole year....x

@maggiecate

New Zealand is really conscious of bio security even in normal times - they have strict phytosanitary controls at all points of entry and a population that is very aware of the vulnerability of their native flora and fauna to imported disease. They know that a single microorganism, seed or insect could be devastating. This translated to being very quick to recognise the risk that COVID posed, willing to act, and having the infrastructure to lock down fast and hard. They were ready because they’re always ready - preventing imported disease is a national priority. In most of the world it isn’t.

This is pretty much it in a nutshell. With so many endemic species we've always been careful with our borders. It doesn't take much to extend that.

The UK government fucked up in many, many ways, not least with their flip-flopping changes every three minutes, but you still can't compare these countries.

We could have shut our borders, but for how long? We need freight for supplies for so many people.

Air freight - pilots and aircrew fly in, isolate in secure accommodation, and then fly out again whence they came.

Sea cargo - containers are lifted off the ship by cranes onto the dockside. Ship's company remains on board.

Lorries on ferries - arriving drivers isolate in secure accommodation while their lorries are emptied and the loads transferred, drivers get their lorry back and return on the ferry.

Freight is easy.

Prioritising health facilitates good function of the economy

'They locked down early, didn’t dither, closed their borders, were clear and strict, the population trusted and obeyed their government who led by example'

I'm like a broken record but it is astonishing that people really believe simplistic stuff like this. The whole of Europe are in the same boat as the UK, is that all Cumming's fault too? It is summer in nz our numbers were low last aug. Combine a new variant with it being winter and folk are all indoors plus, as has been said repeatedly, more than 10 times the population size and that is the reason not JA's brilliant plan.

I've a sister living there, the rules were very strict but everyone was on board, she said people were wearing masks before they were made mandatory, they were told what needed to be done and they followed the rules, for the sake of a few months they put up and it meant they got ontop of the virus.

While borders were closed they were able to tackle it properly, however once the borders open fully they do stand the chance of people coming in with the virus. Other countries laughed at them, the name calling online was awful, but they're the ones laughing now, literally, while enjoying big celebrations.

If you live in a country where many think this virus is no worse than flu and have a I'm alright Jack attitude, I'm not wearing a mask, I'm going to house parties and it's my right to do as I please then numbers will just keep rising.

@sashagabadon
I don’t mean individuals working in the U.K.. I mean the country itself. What has it done to contribute to the world effort?

Do you not think that the fact they have proved to the world that they can contain the virus as a contribution?

Just because they proactively focussed on containment and eradication rather than letting it run riot and rushing a vaccine dose not make their contribution to the world any less significant.

NZ is a very small economy compared to the UK, Europe, US, China and so in. It also has a strong scientific background and history of delivering aid internationally.

How do you know what it has and hasn’t done specifically with regards to scientific research into COVID or the vaccine?

the goverment over there isnt all about ripping off the publics funds for their own get rich quick scams, we literally couldnt of gotten it any more wrong, apart from the furlough scheme its been nothing but a disaster here.

Dont expect 2021 to be a new beginning either, its gonna be the same shit show as 2020 just a different year..

@EarringsandLipstick

Huge country, small population, significantly dispersed, and it's about a 3 hour flight to anyone.

Of course they can do it - no-one can get in or out.

It's not comparable with eg Europe

This and I have lived there in the past. It's never looked more attractive.

@GetOffYourHighHorse why are you so hellbent on defending the government? Do you really think they've done a good job? Why do you not want more for yourself and your community?

I'm in Australia and the borders closed quickly and were policed. People in quarantine are checked regularly and chased up if not where they were supposed to be. Testing and contact tracing is thorough and tries to find the source of each infection cluster. Places where infected people visited are published and people go to be tested if they have been there. Sewerage is checked for traces of covid too.

It hasn't been all smooth as stupid, almost criminal , mistakes were made, but we acted before it was too late to control. I hope we get vaccinated before winter, especially in colder, more populated parts.

I am very fortunate to live in a quiet, sub tropical seaside town which had just 8 cases, all returning holiday makers early on.

I hope UK gets on top of it. I have family there and it must be truly awful. I hope the vaccine makes a difference.

Why, oh why did a uk hospital worker deliberately destroy over 500 vaccines!!!

Best wishes for a happier 2021

@Lipz

I've a sister living there, the rules were very strict but everyone was on board, she said people were wearing masks before they were made mandatory, they were told what needed to be done and they followed the rules, for the sake of a few months they put up and it meant they got ontop of the virus.

While borders were closed they were able to tackle it properly, however once the borders open fully they do stand the chance of people coming in with the virus. Other countries laughed at them, the name calling online was awful, but they're the ones laughing now, literally, while enjoying big celebrations.

If you live in a country where many think this virus is no worse than flu and have a I'm alright Jack attitude, I'm not wearing a mask, I'm going to house parties and it's my right to do as I please then numbers will just keep rising.

U.K. had high compliance and it was reflected in hugely reduced cases after first peak

Why people compare with NZ I don’t get it. Look at Germany at least if you want to say we could have done better. Although they are hit hard atm too.