To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

NZ is an island, they shut their airports and stopped incoming people to it.
Wait the UK is an island, and did we close ours ?

Happy New Year to you wonderful nest of mumsnetty vipers

Incidentally, the climate in NZ is very much like the UK.

Yeah, NZ winters are cold. It’s summer now there but the virus turned up in winter, it’s like some people think Australia/NZ have had an eternal summer during this pandemic.

Everyone who keeps saying that NZ were always going to be fine due to population density have clearly never lived in Auckland.

There are poorly heated, overcrowded houses and families living in poverty with poor health. There’s a higher population of Maori and people of Pacific Island ethnicity who are more at risk of weight problems and have high rates of type 2 diabetes.

The decisions made in NZ and Australia haven’t necessarily been popular. QLD’s premier has had death threats and abuse after closures of the QLD border, when Victoria went back into lockdown (triggered by over 100 cases) their state leader was also vilified by many.

There’s a current cluster in Sydney and 8 new cases in Victoria, leading to state border closure again.

Public health are all over the Sydney cases with testing, strain identification and quarantining. There’s a huge amount of work involved keeping things under control and this is a dynamic process. The upshot is that for almost all of the county, everything is pretty normal.

One point that I think hasn’t been addressed is the massive availability of Covid tests in NZ. I’m sometimes amazed seeing people talking about feeling ill in the UK and other mnetters advising them not to get a test as they don’t have the correct symptoms. Here, the government urges anyone to get a test whenever they have even mild cold symptoms. I got one done a month or so ago with what felt like a summer cold: I called our free Healthline first thing on Sunday morning when I woke up ill, who advised me to get a test. As I was alone with two children I lined up at 8:30 that morning at a drive through test centre (no appt necessary), was done by 9:15am (and got my daughter a test too as she had a runny nose), was advised to isolate until I got the results and received a text at 11pm that same night that we were both negative. Quick, painless, free, efficient and informed: this is how we are sure that we aren’t spreading it asymptomatically and has been a massive part of our effective response. This was on a Sunday during a heightened response period as we’d had a community case that week...

I don't think any country is in a position to start getting smug. Look at what's happened in Sweden. Comparing New Zealand with with the U.K is like comparing apples and pears. An island hardly anyone goes to in comparison with the U.K.

I don't think NZ is smug - it's celebrating where it's at right now, with the current restrictions in place.

Are they not allowed to? If so, why not? Could it make some other countries feel bad?

It might be a bit of a surprise, but UK is not first and foremost as 'the mother country' (how many damaging years ago) at NZ's mind. . . they're entitled to celebrate their victories. How sad that those that they enjoy a 'special relationship' (haha) with, do not. . .

They refused to shut the borders here and didn't bother testing anyone coming in. We also never had a full lockdown compared to other countries and it was left till the last minute. Even then, a large number of people complained loudly about any restrictions at all.

I didn’t read all the comments above but the key difference is them effectively closing their borders. You can’t get in unless you are a citizen or a permanent resident. We (my DH & I) are NZ citizens but would struggle to go back to see the family as now you have to book a space in a government-controlled quarantine facility. If you are not staying in NZ long, you have to pay to stay in that facility. Effectively, no one would go there unless they have to.
I am happy for our friends and family to have a normal life there but I often think they have in a way missed out on the lessons that we here have learned from Covid. My friends there still think WFH is a joke... They also had an enormous influx of citizens returning home which added more pressure on the house prices.
I am more impressed by China and Wuhan. I couldn’t believe all those people out celebrating tonight!

Ice cream and candyfloss
No we didn't have to wear masks in public only public transport
Distancing and sanitising was a huge thing
Nor do we have to wear masks now as pp said.
Our life has returned to normal.
Thankfully I was paid to stay home and returned to work with support for reduced hours with daycare limiting opening times.
Schools closed was not disputed it was accepted because why fight what has to be done to get ourselves through temporarily.
I enjoyed returning to work, even here people broke rules.
The advertising, public signs, no one could be excused for not knowing the rules.
I dread to see the broader's open.
We can holiday within our country and I am
Looking forward to a small trip away.
I have no leave left but I'm alive.
Pre Christmas supplies were reduced as they are all in container ships but who cares.
Do your part.
Lockdowns are horrendous!

I wouldn't be in awe just yet of how New Zealand have handled this - it's still too early to say which country has coped the best.

This Bloomberg article talks about the New Zealand economy haven't yet felt the economic fall out and it's coming in 2021 with higher unemployment and the knock on consequences:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-12-16/new-zealand-economy-surges-out-of-recession-amid-spending-spree

Also for those saying NZ hasn’t contributed internationally, we’ve put millions into the international Covax scheme and have also procured vaccines for our pacific neighbours...

@PicsInRed But borders wouldn't have to be closed to casual travel if the UK put a proper system in place that meant people were doing their 14 days of isolation when coming back from holiday. This has nothing to do with freedom of movement or brexit.

Hard border closure like Australia or NZ does and compulsory hotel quarantine wouldn't be feasible due to the volume of passengers, essential or non-essential, the UK receives each day.

But in many EU countries (Germany for example, where I live) tourism isn't so frowned upon because people actually stay home when they come back from holidays. You're monitored and random checks are made so the health authorities know if you're abiding by the regulations. You can be fined up to €20k if you're found to have broken isolation. Flights are up and running and many people went away for Christmas and are now back, duly isolating at home. Tests are also compulsory, but easily accessible and they only cost €60, guaranteed results within 24h.

In the UK no one checks, so people don't isolate properly. That's why there are still so many imported cases. Germany barely has any, and has maintained their borders open ever since international travel resumed in June. If the UK got their shit together, border closure would be the last worry on anyone's mind.

I don't think any country is in a position to start getting smug. Look at what's happened in Sweden. Comparing New Zealand with with the U.K is like comparing apples and pears. An island hardly anyone goes to in comparison with the U.K

Sweden still has a far lower per capita death rate then the UK, with less economic damage.

$7 million in official development assistance will go to the vaccine alliance, Gavi(external link), which distributes vaccines to developing countries.

That's 7m NZ dollars to Gavi - about £3.5

£3.5 million

People blame the government here, but a lot of people are responsible here as well.

The people who refuse to wear masks, the people who wine about loss of civil liberties when our lockdown has been much tamer than most.

The people who say they will go and mix with their friends and family because they’re fed up of all of this.

There is very little evidence that if we’d locked down earlier things would have been different. Italy locked down earlier than here and they had a much harder lockdown than here and their death rate is now above ours.

The price New Zealand is going to pay is their economy. Obliteration of international tourism leading to mass unemployment, for instance.

The borders are closed, is that to imports as well? Because if so there’s another price to pay.

The UK should have had a much harder lockdown I agree, but people should have been made to stick to it.

No more than one person from a family allowed in a shop at one time. No meeting up anywhere. Possibly even no bubbles, because everyone has put their own loose interpretation on them and “created a bubble” even if they’re not single, for instance.

And mask wearing shouldn’t be exempt except under very extreme circumstances for which you would need a medical certificate in the same way you e.g. need a blue badge to park in a disabled bay.

Exemption is far to open to abuse, and most people who claim to be exempt aren’t.

In 2018, according to UK gov over half of cargo vessel arrivals were ro-ro (ie lorries/vans). That's a lot of food, goods and materials to stop arriving if we are to stop drivers coming.

Approx one third of residents of London alone were born outside the UK. That's a lot of people to cut off from their loved ones. Or to repatriate if they were away when the pandemic struck

Our boarders aren't controlled. Thousands come from ill-supervised camps in inappropriate vessels. In happier times recreational boats travel across The Channel, maybe some still do. We would either have to put up a boarder with Ireland and patrol every single crossing, although some people have businesses astride the boarder, or we would have to depend on Ireland closing their boarders which they may or may not wish to do.

We had many cases in the country before the world had properly understood how extensive the spread was. In order to ensure true isolation of cases and contacts, we would have either needed to physically restrain people or have them supervised by more personnel than we have available.

Despite their care, Australia seem to think the latest outbreak in NSW was from airline crew. They have a tiny proportion of the numbers of flights in and out that we do, so limiting them would have nothing like the effect on freight, expertise, returning nationals and compassionate visits that it would on the UK, but still they have enough to bring Covid. With their smaller population density tracing those involved has been hard; it would be many times harder in the UK.

The price New Zealand is going to pay is their economy. Obliteration of international tourism leading to mass unemployment, for instance.

Some of that will be mitigated by opening up to Australia only, and vice versa. I think they’re each others’ main tourists anyway.

A big deal is the overseas uni students who bring in lots of money to Australian/NZ universities.

Is the U.K. still welcoming tourists?

'It might be a bit of a surprise, but UK is not first and foremost as 'the mother country' (how many damaging years ago) at NZ's mind. . . they're entitled to celebrate their victories. How sad that those that they enjoy a 'special relationship' (haha) with, do not'

Zzzz..

There's nothing to 'celebrate'. Europe and NZ all completely different set of variables,

'However, it's the NY, and I just hope that it all gets better for everyone'

Try to stick to comments like this and give your anti brit crap a rest MrsB. Happy NY.

mbos*

Japan had recent experience of SARS and so had planned better for a COVID type illness. We expected flu.

*I don't think NZ is smug - it's celebrating where it's at right now, with the current restrictions in place.

Are they not allowed to? If so, why not? Could it make some other countries feel bad?

It might be a bit of a surprise, but UK is not first and foremost as 'the mother country' (how many damaging years ago) at NZ's mind. . . they're entitled to celebrate their victories. How sad that those that they enjoy a 'special relationship' (haha) with, do not. . .*

mbosnz - thanks for your posts - have really enjoyed them, sitting here in the sunshine after a pleasant New Year's celebration. Mr Glot is from Manchester, and had his reservations about moving to the other side of the world, 10 years ago. But every day, during the lockdown, we turned on the TV and watched Jacinda and Ashley, in their calm, measured and inclusive manner, tell us the daily score. The "Team of 5 Million" mantra might appear sentimental, but it struck a chord with most Kiwis, and the response was sensible and generally unselfish. There was a remarkable willingness to stick to the rules, which appeared to everyone to be the right thing to do. Mr G is blown away by what NZ has managed to achieve, in comparison with his homeland. Arguments about geography/population/business hubs etc hold some water, but what about the obfuscation concerning the mindset of idiots who insist on foreign holidays/big gatherings/lack of sensible precautions, and most of all, the incredible lack of inclusive leadership. The threads on here which left him in disbelief. NZers are traditionally great travellers, but this year, the $ billions that they would have spent touring the world are being spent here. We live in the sub-tropical Far North, it's a gorgeous summer, and the place is hopping, with campgrounds and motels packed to capacity and beyond. I perceive a changing mindset, with many people realising what a paradise we have here. House prices are booming, home improvement is the obsession du jour. There is a renewed interest in alternative lifestyles, solar power, water-harvesting, self-sufficiency, respect for the environment. Perhaps one good thing we take from this awful pandemic is greater awareness of the value of life. I do hope so. Arohanui to the British whanau - we miss you terribly, and one day, when it is right, we'll meet again.

I'm amazed that people can look at NZ and still claim that lockdown is a waste of time etc.

But even flu kills people every year. At 64, I've had it once in my life, in 2000. Then I was 44. Influenza and other respiratory diseases kill old and infirm people more than the young and fit. Sympathies if it's your family who are old or ill. No judgement offered. It is part of life's continuing cull of the weakest.

Maybe New Zealanders are more compliant with the rules? Maybe they do as they’re advised for the better good of the people and take notice of their medical advisers and government? For those complaining about whether the Government here got it right, they can only do so much, and have to rely on the common sense and compliance of our citizens. And I’m afraid that’s sadly lacking in this country. I don’t agree that 95% of us are following advice and rules. If I’m honest I would say more likely to be 75%, and lower than that in some areas. The government cannot do anything to make people take responsibility other than posting police at every shop and home to ensure mask wearing, social distancing and correct bubbling.