To say this even though I will get flamed for it?

[Friendswithwhenifits]

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. However, I am asthmatic. Numerous studies have shown a link between bleach and lung diseases. Thanks to a Christmas Eve bleach the house session I am now on Day 3 of difficulties in breathing.

You are sensible adults, if you feel ill- see a doctor. However, if I help anyone to prevent harming their lungs by switching to gentler cleaning fluids then it will be worth getting my arse handed to me.

Before you buy the bleach ask yourself if a different product might be healthier for you and your family. In these dangerous times, any little change might make a difference.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

Thing is that bleach isn't going to kill the cats horribly if they somehow get some of it on their paws, whereas Zoflora is.

As long as the bleach is diluted - and we all have access to facemasks now - I don't think it's as bad for humans as is being made out (still a bit shit environmentally, albeit no more than other non eco friendly cleaners). After all, Milton is used to sterilise baby bottles, can be used to render water safe for consumption as well as a vegetable wash in some locations/if you're immune suppressed and we swim in a solution of it when the pool is open.

The biggest danger in my opinion is where people use bleach of surfaces where they have already used disinfectants and the like, thus causing a toxic release. We were taught about this in Year 7 (equivalent). Is that not the case now?

Mixing bleach with other cleaning products is always dodgy because it can potentially give off toxic fumes.

In ye olden days when I was young we were always told to never mix bleach and disinfectant, but what I found in my locality was that people tended to use one or the other and for different purposes.

Mumsnet has massive Zoflora fan base (which I've never quite understood) Maybe it's because it's posh, it smells nice and it's expensive?

For the poorer ones amongst us a good old plastic bottle of 40p bleach may not be perfumed but it does the same job if not better and lasts a lot longer.

None of these products are great for the environment, but neither are viruses, bacteria and funghi, good for human health. Neither bleach nor disinfectant will kill you unless you inhale it or drink it whereas there's plenty of 'natural' nasties out there which will kill you and only chemical concoctions be they drugs or astringent products, will protect and even save you.

A simple insect bite can kill you. Whack TCP on it, put a protective wound dressing on it, take an antibiotic if it comes to it and it's just a minor ailment. Leave it to it's own devices or dab it with tea tree oil (or whatever) and it can cause sepsis.

Sometimes a spray of vinegar or aloe vera or coconut oil or some other 'environmentally-friendly' natural product just doesn't cut it. You need a good old whack of strong chemicals to kill the nasties and bleach is one we can all access and afford.

Bleach is an powerful disinfectant, yes, and cheap too. The thing is that IMHO in normal times most cleaning doesn't need a powerful disinfectant. Cleaning with soap or detergent is effective at removing germs. But the cleaning companies are always trying to market new products, and convincing us that everything is disgustingly dirty when it's not is a good way to get us to buy more of their antibacterial/disinfecting/bleaching/etc sprays and wipes.

Covid-19 has changed that somewhat, but soap is pretty effective at killing the virus anyway.

Insect bites, black mould, the toilet, you need to break out the strong stuff. The washing up, the worktops, and the floors really don't need it.

@safariboot

Bleach is an powerful disinfectant, yes, and cheap too. The thing is that IMHO in normal times most cleaning doesn't need a powerful disinfectant. Cleaning with soap or detergent is effective at removing germs. But the cleaning companies are always trying to market new products, and convincing us that everything is disgustingly dirty when it's not is a good way to get us to buy more of their antibacterial/disinfecting/bleaching/etc sprays and wipes.

Covid-19 has changed that somewhat, but soap is pretty effective at killing the virus anyway.

Insect bites, black mould, the toilet, you need to break out the strong stuff. The washing up, the worktops, and the floors really don't need it.

Totally agree with your post safari ... in normal circumstances.

I still use bars of soap which is a rarity in itself. Don't use shower gels or body scrubs or any of that. A bar of soap costs me pennies and lasts for ages. A bottle of even the cheapest shower gel costs a quid and lasts five minutes.

But in Covid times transmission of viruses comes through lots of sources and the more careful among us are wiping down things we probably never thought about wiping down before.

My neighbour who is 64 with health problems has a recently divorced mid 30s son who has moved back home. He has his three primary school aged children regularly and as he's living there, that's where they stay. She told me she wipes down all the bathroom, doors handles, etc wherever they go because she's terrified of getting Covid. She's on Universal Credit. She uses diluted bleach because it costs 40p, it goes a long way and it WORKS.

For many of us cost is a huge factor. A bottle of bespoke 'anti bacteria' spray comes in at a quid or more (and has its fair share of chemical content anyway), or a plain old bottle of bleach at 40p?

We don't all have the luxury of shopping around for environmentally friendly scented oils, sprays 'natural' organic and all the rest of it bollocks. We just want something that will clean, disinfect, and will kill pretty much everything it comes into contact with. Plain old plastic bottle bleach does exactly that and it's criminal the way it's being demonised on this thread.

981 people died of Covid in the UK today. How many died of bleach?

It was mould removal in the bathroom.

@Friendswithwhenifits I’d not recommend bleach to try and kill mould, it’s actually really poor at that. Also some moulds can be quite dangerous, especially when under attack and produce clouds of spores, so it might be this that’s caused your asthma flare up. I’d recommend wearing a p3 mask if doing this in the future. I hope you’re feeling better soon.

@Fontella... I understand your points about cost and effectiveness. My point was that if you are sensitive and it triggers asthma, you can find other solutions. Bulk white vinegar and bicarbonate of soda are cheap, They don't need to be especially packaged as eco and organic or with essential oils which does increase the price. A 5 litre bottle of vinegar costs about £2.50.

@Fontella To kill weeds - and everything else that lives in your 'garden'.

@CounsellorTroi

Scented candles and plug in air fresheners are another source of pollution in the home.

I’m sure this triggered my sons first ever asthma attack in a rented cottage. The doctor supported this view too. Never had anything like these since. On the other hand whilst I knew bleach was strong, I didn’t actually know it was so bad for lungs. I do only use it in the loo, but a squirt every day (males in the house). Is this ok do you think???

None of these products are great for the environment, but neither are viruses, bacteria and funghi, good for human health.

I pointed out previously that we are literally made of bacteria, viruses and funghi - known collectively as the microbiome. Your microbiome is a fundamental part of human health - your gut microbiota for example are a key part of your metabolism.

White vinegar get rid of mould so it stops coming back. (It’s what I used on my ceilings when we were in the tropics.)
Bleach and exit mould etc just makes it white but doesn’t actually kill it.

I use bleach in the toilet and occasionally down the sink, but that’s about it.

I'm asthmatic and use bleach sparingly, but I do find other cleaning products like bathroom cleaner make me cough, even the ones that don't have bleach. I've tried organic ones and they still do, have also tried Koh which I think is hydrochloride acid as mentioned above, but it's just not very effective IMO.

I thought I had tried vinegar on our mould...

However, what I will do is trial bleach spray & mould on side by side patches & report back (maybe not soon). Watch this thread.

*trial bleach spray & vinegar side by side

I've stopped using it in favour of our water treatment system (not on mains drainage) and haven't missed it. I use the Ecover toilet cleaners and apart from a slight bit more scrubbing it's been fine. Also the method shower spray used after each shower prevents the need for a scrub with bleach in the shower (ordinary cleaners fine).

@lljkk

*trial bleach spray & vinegar side by side

Do you know what happens when you mix bleach plus vinegar?

Bleach should not be mixed with other household chemicals.

*I see you are doing it side by side - maybe ok but still not a good idea to have those chemicals near each other.

ok, I'll put some tape down the side to keep separate. I feel sure there will be no difference, though.

I don't have a spray bottle for vinegar, fine to sponge it on instead?

sorry,. tape down the middle. Boy I sure do love the lack of edit button on MN

You know what the bleach does so don’t do it at the same time.
Vinegar and a scrubbing brush.

www.choice.com.au/home-and-living/laundry-and-cleaning/surface-cleaners/articles/getting-rid-of-mould

Bastard phone not posting.

It takes too long to post pics from laptop, but basically I tackled ceiling of window area (mould spots) & orange mould on shower tiles. I had similar patches in both areas so tried bleach separately vinegar in each.

Vinegar was just as good, maybe better result on the orange mould in shower tile grout, as bleach was. But bleach did much better job on the mould spots on wall next to window. We used bleach for rain soaked interior walls by our front door & it was amazing low effort result. I will try more vinegar in the shower, at least. The worst mould-affected area is under the shower doors (metal tracks, boak, toothbrush job...). thanks for info, anyway.

WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants
The reason for using diluted bleach during the covid crisis is that it kills the virus. Wiping down with detergent or dettol or antibacterial wipes does not kill virus, only bacteria. So does it probably does not protect against the virus?

Fontella
Your friend in her 60s is doing the right thing using bleach on objects and surfaces, against covid, for the same reasons as above. Antibacterials in themselves are not enough to kill virus,

Soap kills the virus as it breaks the oily lipid membrane - that’s precisely the point of the advice to wash your hands regularly. Alcohol based disinfectant with 60-80% alcohol also kill the virus in a similar way.

Ordinary washing up liquid in a bowl of hot water is the best thing to wipe all surfaces and kills Covid 19 and it doesn't ruin your work tops.
Soap and water is the best thing for your hands. Alcohol has to stay wet for around a minute or more on skin before it evaporates to be effective. It is also important to sanitise your hands when leaving the shop or the bus. Lots of people don't do that.

Wiping down with detergent or dettol or antibacterial wipes does not kill virus, only bacteria. So does it probably does not protect against the virus

Bacteria are harder to kill than viruses.

Destroy the membrane the viral RNA is in and you've destroyed the virus.

Soap and water is very effective.

www.qub.ac.uk/coronavirus/analysis-commentary/how-soap-kills-covid-19-virus/

@endofthelinefinally

Ordinary washing up liquid in a bowl of hot water is the best thing to wipe all surfaces and kills Covid 19 and it doesn't ruin your work tops. Soap and water is the best thing for your hands. Alcohol has to stay wet for around a minute or more on skin before it evaporates to be effective. It is also important to sanitise your hands when leaving the shop or the bus. Lots of people don't do that.

Washing up liquid is a detergent not a soap so does not interfere with covid nor kill anything else