Hilaria Baldwin pretended to be Spanish wtf?!

[Ballstothis148]

This is the least important and most weird story of 2020.... this woman comes up on my Instagram a lot as a suggested page. Tbh I don’t find her interesting but know she’s Spanish and is into health, having babies with Alec Baldwin and that’s pretty much it. She speaks with a Spanish accent, on her IG page she calls her children “Baldwinitos” I do remember an article saying when she speaks Spanish to her kids people confuse her for a nanny so I thought an interesting take on a European mum in the States.

Except it’s all a lie. She’s not remotely Spanish. Her wealthy Boston parents (no Spanish ancestry) now have a holiday home there.

What is wrong with people?! I include me for being too interested :) why pretend to be Spanish? In one interview she even pretended she didn’t know the word for cucumber as her English isn’t that good

Oh and she’s not even called Hilaria, she’s called Hilary. This year I swear... what an odd story!! I did know a girl who went very French after a romance there one year... maybe it’s a thing!

"Because by pretending to be Spanish she implied she was Hispanic. "

But Spanish people aren't Hispanic?

Brazil has a history of aspiring to "racial purity" etc - do read up on it if interested as not going into detail when it's out there for anyone to read.

Brazil have a history of categorising vast aspects of a person's appearance and a person can be considered white even if their siblings and parents are clearly racially non-white - so the actual ancestry of your family is not as important as how you look. In US, it has history of one-drop rule so even if you had a black ancestor way back in time, you're non-white.

So it doesn't matter if a person on this thread doesn't agree that a Spanish person is classed as non-white in US, that's how it is - you don't need to understand it.

So to quote attached: you could socially be accepted as "white" regardless of ancestry or even immediate family, siblings etc.

The Americas history with slavery is vastly different to our experience - so yes it doesn't make any sense to us because it doesn't make any sense, but that's how it is and their experience is not ours.....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_Brazil

Brazil has a history of aspiring to "racial purity" etc - do read up on it if interested as not going into detail when it's out there for anyone to read

Okay. It's just cos I'm from Brazil and never noticed any particular madness about categorizing people's race or ethnicity.

History of categorizing people. History of Nazi propaganda etc Different to UK. Different to US.

The issue of how whiteness is socially and legally constructed and maintained is incredibly complex and fascinating (at least I find it fascinating) but probably beyond the limits of this thread, as meandering as it's already been.

Maintained? It seems to me that what's maintaining this skin colour preoccupation in the USA, is all Amercian's and not just the white ones either

The most basic explanation is that the US has a huge number of Spanish-speaking/Hispanic immigrants (from either Mexico, or countries in central or South America) who historically and currently suffer a great deal of oppression and racial discrimination.

Where does the "Hispanic" label come from? Can't people just be Mexican or Cuban or whatever?

"Whiteness" is strictly controlled in the US, both legally and culturally (why they have things like the One Drop law,

Have?

how Irish people weren't considered white,

Do you have any sources for this please? I'd like to look into this further

and why the US Supreme Court has heard cases to decide whether a person - and many of these cases have been Hispanic people - is legally white or not.)

For what purpose. Why does the SC do this?

There are relatively few people immigrating from Spain to the US, so in America the assumption is that anyone who speaks Spanish as their first language is Hispanic and from a country in the Americas.

So it's parochial ignorance on their part?

The average American is not going to see a dark-haired person speaking Spanish and assume she might be white European from Spain because that's just a level of subtlety and nuance that most people don't go into.

Maybe now, if any good comes from it, they will appreciate a world outside the USA identity bubble. Hopefully

I think that’s a reach.

We have no idea what was in her mind originally and from the two videos I’ve seen of her trying to explain herself I don’t think she was trying to disenfranchise Hispanic people.

I think she was most likely trying to appear to be more ‘exotic’ than her heritage. She obviously enjoyed the Spanish culture whilst on holiday and felt that over the years she had a foot in Spain alongside a foot in the US. This has now snowballed alongside her celebrity and has run her over. It’s easy to scream white privilege and if I’m honest I think it is a good example of that. But I don’t think she set out to hurt anyone in a calculated way.

@Flaxmeadow you can’t say it’s all history and doesn’t matter.

The Black Lives Matter movement shows vividly that what happened centuries ago isn’t just history but has far reaching ramifications.

Don't people in America know the difference between "Hispanic", I'm not sure, what that means tbh, and someone from Spain? In Hilaria's head, for whatever reason, she is Spanish not Hispanic and she made that clear. Or am I missing something

Has she? There are past examples of the media referring to her as "Latina" and given her accolades explicitly for "Latina women" and her gratefully accepting.

Latina is exclusively for people from Latin American countries. HB might just conceivably argue that she considered herself Hispanic (the US Census considers people from Spain to be Hispanic - and excludes Brazilians, though that's not common usage) but she has no grounds for referring to herself as Latina.

@FunkBus

"Because by pretending to be Spanish she implied she was Hispanic. "

But Spanish people aren't Hispanic?

But Americans think they are

As PPs have said - Spanish people are not Hispanic they are white Europeans from Spain. However they classify those from South America she never claimed to be from there - she said Spain which would make her white. You can not possibly put Catholics in the no power category - historically or now. Yes there was a reformation in England but Catholics retained their power everywhere else in Europe for sometime and still do now. Spain has historically been a very powerful nation. They are in no way seen as a minority group anywhere except it appears in the US. I (sort of) understand their classification of a Hispanic person although personally it has suprised me and I would actually call them white (as would the majority of white Europeans I would imagine) however a Spanish person is not Hispanic. They are Spanish which makes them white European there is no other classification for them.

Do they think Italians are not white?

When America was founded, people were given the freedom to practice whatever religion they wanted.

And the people with money power and influence were Protestant.

Why would someone be considered "lesser"?

Come off it - this is a silly question - the constitution specifically says a black man is worth 1/6 of a white man so matters didn’t start on an equal basis. Do you think Native Anericans had equal rights, black people, women. Have you never seen pictures of the signs saying ‘no Irish, no blacks no dogs’ Yes in this country but would have been similar in the US. Do you think all people are equal in the US or globally now - really.

Aren't most Black people in the USA of a Protestant, though Nonconformist, religious background anyway? Not episcopalian - not the same thing.

That's right, historically Italians considered non-white. The original settlers were WASP - further immigration came later from southern Europe etc and not considered "white".

You can not possibly put Catholics in the no power category - historically or now. Yes there was a reformation in England but Catholics retained their power everywhere else in Europe for sometime and still do now

Not in America historically. It was a big deal when Kennedy, a catholic, became president. Protestants played on people’s fears of divided loyalties - country and Rome.

History matters!

Northern European - Germans, Scandinavians etc is what white has meant in US.

Well I never .... that's honestly astounded me

Flaxmeadow if you are interested in learning about race or about any of the subjects I mentioned I can PM you a list of books? You're asking a lot of questions, and they are good and interesting questions, but too complex to be able to go into in the confines of this thread.

I would definitely recommend the book "How the Irish Became White" which is the definitive work on the subject (there are other books that cover the same material but are less thorough or more academic).

For the US Supreme Court, this is an okay primer:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States

I'd also recommend the PBS series "RACE: The Power of an Illusion" if you can find it online, and this short paper covers everything pretty well: scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1386&context=jcl

Spain is not in America littlebear

I think that's what's so confusing

They are conflating a European country with non-Europeans. This for me is definite proof she is not Spanish. No Spaniard would think they were not white

Oh and this one: www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/02/04/the-supreme-court-case-that-enshrined-white-supremacy-in-law

@gottakeeponmovin

Spain is not in America littlebear

I think that's what's so confusing

They are conflating a European country with non-Europeans. This for me is definite proof she is not Spanish. No Spaniard would think they were not white

No they aren’t

But they don’t meet the US definition of white - British, French, Dutch, German, Scandi etc.

you can’t say it’s all history and doesn’t matter.

Well you can sometimes, it can matter less, if people have the will

The Black Lives Matter movement shows vividly that what happened centuries ago isn’t just history but has far reaching ramifications.

Yes history generally does, but it's the labeling of people by the colour of their skin now that I don't understand and not all Black people in the USA agree with BLM. Not all white people oppose it.

it all just seems do divisive. Categorising people by skin colour seems so old fashioned and a backwards move in general. Racist even. It harks back to Jim Crow and segregation. Isn't it better to just label someone by nationality or where they've grown up. Like a Mexican or North American. Or by their home State or city even. A Texan or a New Yorker or whatever.

I'm not meaning to cause offence or dismiss history, it's important to know your own peoples history and be respectful of that. It just seems a bit to much about labels and putting people in boxes

I do agree it’s batshit but that’s where we are.

A Dutchman hearing me say Fine when asked if I was having a good time would think I was. An English person might be a lot more sceptical

A relative spent a long time in Italy when asked how she is tells you at length - most English people will again say fine - even if their left leg has fallen off.

@Flaxmeadow I do hear you. But identity politics is huge at the moment. People define themselves by their little box of a subset - more’s the pity sometimes. It is who they are - and explains their experience.

Sometimes rightly - sometimes wrongly - see biscuit Tins and sewing and house coats above.

And if you are privileged - white, rich etc. It’s a little distasteful to identify as something else to make you exotic.

But surely today's "Irish-Americans" and "Italian-Americans" don't see themselves (or their ancestors?) as non-white? I'm just trying to get my head around this weirdness.

@Flaxmeadow

you can’t say it’s all history and doesn’t matter.

Well you can sometimes, it can matter less, if people have the will

The Black Lives Matter movement shows vividly that what happened centuries ago isn’t just history but has far reaching ramifications.

Yes history generally does, but it's the labeling of people by the colour of their skin now that I don't understand and not all Black people in the USA agree with BLM. Not all white people oppose it.

it all just seems do divisive. Categorising people by skin colour seems so old fashioned and a backwards move in general. Racist even. It harks back to Jim Crow and segregation. Isn't it better to just label someone by nationality or where they've grown up. Like a Mexican or North American. Or by their home State or city even. A Texan or a New Yorker or whatever.

I'm not meaning to cause offence or dismiss history, it's important to know your own peoples history and be respectful of that. It just seems a bit to much about labels and putting people in boxes

And my assumption is you are white.