“He wouldn’t be where he is if I hadn’t sacrificed my career”

[BooFuckingHoo2]

I am expecting a flaming for this .

AIBU to think this is often untrue? I know many men with stay at home wives and kids who, in all honesty, whilst happy to have kids (because the wife does all the wifework) would probably have been equally happy with either no kids or extensive wraparound childcare and an equally high earning wife.

I often see it trotted out on here “I sacrificed my career to look after our children” - but the for the majority of women (aside from some exceptions e.g. husband working abroad) I’m sure it was a welcome choice and not something they were strong armed into. In my experience (unless childcare costs eclipse the wife’s salary) the husband is usually indifferent (aside from the wankers who want a trophy wife) as to whether the wife works or not.

Equally “he wouldn’t be where he is in his career if it wasn’t for me”. I’m sure there’s a small minority of women who’ve accelerated their husbands career but I think for most, they’d have been the same with or without their wife, although granted possibly with no children or higher childcare costs.

AIBU?

I gave up work because I didn't want to do it - why should I want to?

That's absolutely your choice & right.
I think the question was asked because it was implied that childcare costs was the deciding factor & why the burden wasn't spread across family income.

I gave up work because I didn't want to do it

That's absolutely fine, but also means it was definitely not a sacrifice.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

I not questioning your happiness, I’m questioning your logic that nursery fees exceed your wage,when there are two wages

I had no desire to work full time and then go home via the nusery to pick up my twins alone because my dh had to be in work for long hours often abroad, whether you see the logic in that is irrelevant, I can't be arsed going into it with you because what would be the point - you do not wish to understand our perspective - you simply wish to prove me wrong...and I'm too long on the tooth for that crap! We made a decision after much chat - it worked for us...it doesn't fit with your agenda..sorry about that but we live our lives to suit ourselves.

Thefilmisabouttostart
In which case you've chosen to be a SAHP because you didn't want to work full time.

So why go down the route of 'but childcare would wipe out my wages so it makes sense'? It's another one of those cliches that seems to ofset child expenses against the women's wages and not a household expense for two adults that have chosen to start a family.

This is what the OP is getting at, in quite a lot of circumstances the decision seems to be presented as mum making a big sacrifice because her husband couldn't possibly manage without her being at home, when actually for quite a lot of people they have chosen to stay at home because that's what they want to do (which is a totally valid decision before you get snippy about people's agendas).

I was a trailing spouse and my husband made it clear that he would move for his career anyway, whether I and the children follow or not. Before the international move I was the high earner in the family. After the move I could not even get a full work permit, and childcare was very very very expensive, so... I could have stayed behind with the kids but they love him, so I thought I'd be depriving them of their father.

Kettlingur
I'm guessing it's worked out for you overall, but I can't help feel it's disgusting that a man would place his wife in that position and feel entitled to essentially use children guilt her into giving up something she has worked hard for.

Apologies if I've got that substantially wrong, but it feels like that sort of male entitlement is absolutely central to the problem.

My sister sacrificed her career for her husband’s as they were both lawyers and working the hours that were needed whilst running a home and raising two children became too hard. He asked her to stop work to really just run the household and make his life smoother and less stressful. I don’t know if she sees it as a sacrifice. I would have done as my career comes before my partner and I am the main breadwinner, but she has done a great deal with her time regardless in terms of charity work etc. on top of becoming an accomplished cook, organising events etc. The balance seems to work better for them. She did seem more stressed when she was trying to juggle more.

@Thefilmisabouttostart you’re being fiercely defensive when you’re not being attacked.I’m not asking or expecting you to justify your choice. Nor do I need to know the length of your teeth. I simply queried your post about nursery fees from your sole wage(Which incidentally remains unanswered) . Of course you live your live to suit yourselves,that’s self explanatory. I’m not going to come round your house,knock the door and forcibly employ you against your will. Nor can I prove you wrong given I’m not the arbiter

@LolaSmiles

Thefilmisabouttostart In which case you've chosen to be a SAHP because you didn't want to work full time.

So why go down the route of 'but childcare would wipe out my wages so it makes sense'? It's another one of those cliches that seems to ofset child expenses against the women's wages and not a household expense for two adults that have chosen to start a family.

This is what the OP is getting at, in quite a lot of circumstances the decision seems to be presented as mum making a big sacrifice because her husband couldn't possibly manage without her being at home, when actually for quite a lot of people they have chosen to stay at home because that's what they want to do (which is a totally valid decision before you get snippy about people's agendas).

It absolutely depends on the type of jobs we are talking about. There are plenty of jobs out there that would pay less than nursery costs or just about break even. If one wage covers everything (just about) , sometimes with added working costs(clothes,commute,possibly food,social events etc) the family is worse off , especially if they lose any financial help like benefits.

I suppose these type of families aren't included on this thread though, as it's about careers (and high paying careers at that) not just jobs/minimum wage jobs.

@LolaSmiles

Kettlingur I'm guessing it's worked out for you overall, but I can't help feel it's disgusting that a man would place his wife in that position and feel entitled to essentially use children guilt her into giving up something she has worked hard for.

Apologies if I've got that substantially wrong, but it feels like that sort of male entitlement is absolutely central to the problem.

Actually, I totally agree. It did not really work out for me personally, but my kids and husband benefited. My career stalled and crashed. What I am angry about, now a couple of decades later, is that me giving up my career was almost a given. Everyone seemed to expect that of me, so I kind of accepted it and went along.

I think its amazing that it's a perfect split down the middle for this thread.

I think it can be a sacrifice - Eg if both people in the couple agree that they would want 1 sahp because of cost-benefit for their kids. Maybe there are other ways of childcare but both parents think their kids would most benefit from 1 sahp. But let’s say both prefer to be the one working, but one gives it up.

Not saying that this is the case always, but it can be a sacrifice. This is made worse if one person has an affair/becomes abusive. Then, the terms on which the agreement was made are changed unilaterally. It is one of the risks of the sahp set-up and some people mitigate, but not everyone.

he has been affected by my mental health when I worked full time as I really struggled with the long hours and wrap around care. Getting part time allowed a better life balance and I was generally happier to be around

This.

Until quite recently I worked with an office full of high flying men, they were all married with kids and every single one of them had a stay at home wife. Their ages ranged from 28 to 57.
To be fair for at least some portion of their career they would have had to travel abroad a fair bit.
I'm a single parent and was the only woman in the office. They were nice guys but didn't have a clue

Why do people feel the need to come on and moralise about other people’s marriages, fgs? You do realise, life is not black and white - women shouldn’t be pinned down by other women to classify whether their decision not to work was a “sacrifice” or a “lifestyle choice.” What is this nonsense anyway - there is no justification needed. Clearly it can be both. Just as having a full in job is a @lifestyle choice”, but also a “sacrifice” in some ways.

This Is the way I feel after 17 years as a SAHM to 4 DC... Yes, it’s been a sacrifice in the sense I never had a career. But overall, it must have been a lifestyle choice (and one that I was very lucky to have been in a position to make) - otherwise, well, I wouldn’t have done it would I? On balance, I have no regrets. So it’s irrelevant what people on MN think. If you happened to be married to my DH or found yourself in my particular circumstances, you may well have done the same. Who knows?

But overall, it must have been a lifestyle choice (and one that I was very lucky to have been in a position to make) - otherwise, well, I wouldn’t have done it would I?

Which is good, but the issue is the women who are essentially forced into it as the man declares he cannot possibly maintain his super high flying career if he has to inconvenience himself with pesky things like school holidays, illness etc. If a woman makes the choice, or at least is genuinely content with it then being a SAHM is great and a lot of respect for people who choose that.

One thing I'm wary of with the rise of home working is the negative effect on shared parental leave. My husband and I planned to do that when we have kids (8:4 split), but I'm not so happy with the idea of wfh with DH and a baby there too. I can't help but feel that the baby would get clingy to me etc, and it would be far harder for my husband to parent independently with me there.

I do think careers are overrated. Career success and job satisfaction is not a straight line correlation. I'm far more satisfied by my hobby of writing than I am by my career as a COO. Both of us are planning to work part time already to accommodate a better work-life balance, and that's pre kids.

My husband was a SAH dad for 8 yrs while I progressed my career. I desperately wanted a family but also love my job. My husband is now back at work 3 days a week and it is so hard to give my job the same level of commitment as I did before - I’m having to be much less selfish and plan not to take on any more management roles. So in my case I wouldn’t be where I am today without him. Can’t speak for others.

Well some jobs are more difficult to combine with having a family. This is a fact. Not everyone works fixed hours. Some men or people in general are in a position to make a lot of money and the couple decide it’s in the interests of the whole family and the children to let him go for it because it will be life-changing for everyone involved. You don’t fuss about your DH being home at 6pm or whatever because you understand what he’s doing and why. It’s a different mentality. Both sides are sacrificing in different ways - that’s how it seems to me. Quite often, these things kind of snowball anyway. Nobody sets out to make family life harder or more stressful than it needs to be. You manage the stress in the way that makes sense in the context of your family. This will mean totally different things for different people.

Interesting that it’s always fathers and not mothers who ‘have to’ travel for work.

I know many couples where wife is primary earner and dh the default parent. A sizeable minority actually thinking about it

I agree that it’s probably an exaggeration when wives and partners say this but, from my experience, not as much as you might think.

The sacrifices seem to happen gradually. I (F) have a 20m/o daughter and before she arrived my OH and I were earning the exact same. Where I live, childcare is around £1,000 per month for a full-time place. It’s cheaper for one of us to work part-time so she’s only there four days a week rather than five. OH’s work refused to be flexible and allow him to reduce his hours (not an excuse he made, he would love to spend more time with her and out of both of us I’m the more career-focussed one), so I reduced my hours instead.

Workplaces seem much more willing to flex hours and arrangements for mothers than fathers, so sacrifices relating to work and income are disproportionately made by them. Obviously this means that dads have to sacrifice more time with their kids so they don’t have it any better IMO, it’s just different.

We’re hoping to have our second child next year so my career will likely remain stagnant for a while. Meanwhile he’s had a promotion and is earning more than me, but is expected to work more hours unpaid in the office. We work in the same field and I know the same expectations would be on me if I was promoted, so there’d be two people trying to escape in time to do the nursery run, working into the night at home to make up for it. Hence why I don’t expect my career to progress any time soon.

Women are constantly fed this line that you can have family and a career and maintain them both easily - in my experience it’s more like doing a shit job at both and trying to balance it so you aren’t too shit at either one.

So no, women aren’t totally responsible for their partners’ careers, but the sacrifices do add up.

My husband would have "supported" me going back to work. But in practice that meant nothing (as I discovered when I tried to retrain as a teacher). Yes to occasionally re-arranging his schedule to supervise a sick child. But not there when one child broke their ankle, even when the school I was working in let me just go in for lessons - so I spent my time phoning around and begging favours. Unless I'd had a high paying job we couldn't have afforded the Nannies we'd have needed either. And he spent a lot of his career being abroad at least one week a month.
He couldn't have held down those jobs without a wife to do the child care, take up all the slack. And nevermind the vast amount of household job including employing builders I did (when he tried to phone a plumber he called one who'd stopped doing that kind of work 15 years before).
He once went on a business trip, pointing out as he walked out that we seemed to have an overflowing drain - leaving me with 3 young children having to find a drain company in an emergency.

So he had children looked after and the house run, and a lot of other stuff as well.

But admittedly I wouldn't have married him if he hadn't wanted kids, but I also wouldn't have married him if I'd realised how uninvolved he'd be. (It still upsets me that my eldest was taught to ride his bike by one of his friend's Dad).

But overall, it must have been a lifestyle choice (and one that I was very lucky to have been in a position to make) - otherwise, well, I wouldn’t have done it would I? On balance, I have no regrets. So it’s irrelevant what people on MN think.

But you don't speak for everyone & some do have regrets.
If it's irrelevant what people on MN think why are you on the thread, just ignore it.
Your opinion on what's relevant is not relevant 😜