“He wouldn’t be where he is if I hadn’t sacrificed my career”

[BooFuckingHoo2]

I am expecting a flaming for this .

AIBU to think this is often untrue? I know many men with stay at home wives and kids who, in all honesty, whilst happy to have kids (because the wife does all the wifework) would probably have been equally happy with either no kids or extensive wraparound childcare and an equally high earning wife.

I often see it trotted out on here “I sacrificed my career to look after our children” - but the for the majority of women (aside from some exceptions e.g. husband working abroad) I’m sure it was a welcome choice and not something they were strong armed into. In my experience (unless childcare costs eclipse the wife’s salary) the husband is usually indifferent (aside from the wankers who want a trophy wife) as to whether the wife works or not.

Equally “he wouldn’t be where he is in his career if it wasn’t for me”. I’m sure there’s a small minority of women who’ve accelerated their husbands career but I think for most, they’d have been the same with or without their wife, although granted possibly with no children or higher childcare costs.

AIBU?

@jillypill possible I guess though a lot of young children I looked after would at times get terribly upset missing parents if they have not seen them all week

Plus I just couldn't be making choices that actively continue a culture of male dominated senior management.
Those orgs with an old fashioned culture of men at the top only having SAH wives - who are these wives and are they aware of what they support? Sure they will all say the set up 'works for our family' but it's hardly facilitating positive change.

Why don’t the men in charge make the positive change? Why is it their wives’ responsibility?

Cayroll and the point of your story is that you worked in the city...probably on a good salary...plus you had family to muck in.

Women with no education or few skills can't work in the city and have a nanny.

They rely on the earning capacity of their partner because they earn minimum wage. So it makes sense for them to stay at home.

That's why so many women try to make money selling tat on Facebook. And people on MN laugh at them for it.

It's bloody awful really. I got a degree..married a tradesman and started my own business from home whilst my children were babies.

I only managed that because DH was earning well...my degree was useless (arts) and I'd have ended up in a shop or something if DH hadn't been able to support me financially while I established my business.

But not all women have that...or the skills to start a business which actually pays.

These threads always weed out a lot of internalised misogyny. It’s depressing.

Haven’t read the whole thread.

In my DH’s case, yes, he probably would have done just as well in his career had I not given up mine. He’s made it clear over the years that his career comes first so I expect he would have done that whatever I did.

If I’d stayed working and we’d had wall to wall childcare, however, our daughter’s SN probably wouldn’t have been diagnosed till much later if at all, we would just have thought her incredibly difficult and badly behaved, so would school I suspect. We might well have got divorced as I would have been exhausted and resentful of carrying all the mental load and child/medical related stress (even the best nannies do not deal with the mental load believe me), as well as working in a demanding career.

So the mostly likely outcome is he would have had a successful career but a miserable and/or broken up family.

He definitely wanted kids.

@lovepickledlimes but not all working involves not seeing your child all week.

@RUOKHon agree it's up to these organisations to change but i guess my point is that I wonder if women would feel uncomfortable knowing that the set up they are choosing by SAH wife to a powerful man in a male dominated setting is perpetuating a status quo that keeps men in powerful positions and doesn't help the situation for women in those orgs. Surely something to consider even for a second?

I say this as a friend who is a SAHM has a husband in banking who keeps getting promotions that she boasts about and I can only think of the women working in those banks who didn't get the promotion because they forgot to get a SAH wife to enable them!!

He’s made it clear over the years that his career comes first so I expect he would have done that whatever I did.

He definitely wanted kids.

So would he have facilitated you working in anyway or was it just have kids in a way that suits me?

@jillypill of course but some do. I also would really not like it if someone other then me or family were looking after our children from 8AM until 8PM 5 days a week. It's just not something I would want my kids to experience

I really don't think this is as cut and dried as it might seem tbh.

When you're pregnant for the first time, you don't know how you will cope, how your relationship will cope, or what your baby will be like.

I ended up with an asd first child. Instinctively I wanted to be there more for him but I was also in a well paid job. I asked. No. I begged my now exH to look at flexible working so we could share care. He categorically refused. My son needed blended care and wouldn't have coped in an 8-6 environment. I was, at the time, earning more than my husband.

But because my child's needs were greater, I took the financial hit. Then my husband decided to take a job in London in spite of us agreeing that wouldn't be good for family life, and so I was stuck. And yes, his career blossomed as a result of not having to concern himself with the minutiae of daycare and medical appointments, which meant his career path was directly opposite to mine.

I absolutely believe he would not be where he is career wise, if I hadn't facilitated tjat. And as far as 'being happy to be without kids' well when he's happy to do the deed, fully in the knowledge that pregnancy is on the cards, I'm not going to be too bothered about whether he 'wanted' kids or not. He understood biology and he knew I was off contraception.

That's fair enough but your original
point seemed to imply all childcare was bad & had an impact @lovepickledlimes

@jillypill well that is my personal experience and observation. Of course I am sure there are also cases where the children are perfectly happy with the set up but my experience is that most kids at least at some point might get slightly upset about the long working hours

I don't disagree but I wouldn't say 8-8 childcare 5 days a wk is the norm.

Well... DH would definitely still have done well had I stayed working f/t but not to the extent he has.
He works ridiculously long hours, often away. For this he is rewarded financially. If I had stayed working f/t, then all household and childcare duties would have been split 50/50. If he’d been forced to leave work at 5/5.30 twice a week, he wouldn’t have been able to take on such senior roles which saw him often out of the country. No way was I willing to work f/t and do all the household stuff. My ideal would have been to SAH for a couple of years then return p/t. I tried this but working p/t just led to me still doing everything as he stayed in the same job. He would have needed to take a less senior roll with quite a substantial pay drop to ensure he was local and could do his share of drop offs and pick ups and his share of baths and homework etc. He really didn’t want to do this and neither of us wanted our household income to drop by such a huge amount. So I agreed to SAH for a very long time and that allowed him to continue to travel and work long hours which in turn brought in a good six figure salary. Now, he’s senior enough that he doesn’t travel hardly at all and indeed WFH as a general rule. DD is 16yrs and the boys are both in a primary school with excellent wraparound and I work 4 days a week. I am nowhere near where I would have been had I stayed f/t all along and yes, I sacrificed my career to facilitate DH’s. But it was a joint decision made for very practical reasons. The driving force was the money rather than a longing to be at home or a willingness to put DH first.

Have things changed since I was a dc I wonder? In my parents circle (DHs with high earning jobs) it was very normal for the mums to not work but still have help. They were not around us dc all the time at all. This was the 80s though so too busy living it up perhaps.

Also very normal to send your dc to boarding school M-F.

@jillypill some careers require that so in cases where neither parent is willing to step back from this high flying career that will be the reality for these children. This was very hard for me personally especially in the day care group 6m-1y old but I assume it was not an easy choice for the parents either. At the end of the day I do think most parents do what they see as best for the family as a unit

So would he have facilitated you working in anyway or was it just have kids in a way that suits me?

He’s happy to facilitate me working as long as it isn’t going to negatively impact his career. So funding a nanny, training, no problem. Asking his boss if he can reduce his hours, taking a less demanding role, or saying no to a 6pm client meeting - problem.

Would he have made these career compromises if the alternative was no kids - I honestly don’t know. It never came to that for him. Before DC we thought it would be possible for us both to have our careers and kids with nannies cleaners etc and if DD had not had SN then perhaps it would have been. By the time it became clear we couldn’t (DC were 4 and 2 and had almost never slept through) I was too exhausted to push to keep working. I don’t know what he would have said if I’d demanded we both cut our hours rather than me stop work. It would have required a career change for us both, and much lower household income, so doubt either of us would have thought that option sensible or possible, the state we were in.

I said upthread that 2 high flying parents working ft in full on careers with young dc is difficult however I don't think that's the norm for most families anyway.

I think thats rubbish tbh. You just have to look at the statistics for earnings/pensions/single parents/child support owed etc... to see that marriage benefits men and is to the detriment of women.

The premise is also dripping with misogyny

@Waferbiscuit - I agree. The uncomfortable fact is that these women facilitating men’s careers are facilitating the patriarchy and making it harder for working women. We need working patterns that that work for both sexes not to live in the 50s where marrying a rich man is the pinnacle of women’s achievement

I said upthread that 2 high flying parents working ft in full on careers with young dc is difficult however I don't think that's the norm for most families anyway.

No it’s not the norm but it is the situation envisaged in the OP. Or at least I read it as such.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@Waferbiscuit - I agree. The uncomfortable fact is that these women facilitating men’s careers are facilitating the patriarchy and making it harder for working women. We need working patterns that that work for both sexes not to live in the 50s where marrying a rich man is the pinnacle of women’s achievement[/quote]
This.

My husband staying at home has definitely facilitated my career. I work late and travel a lot for work and I would not be happy to do this I slf my children were in the care of a nanny. We don’t have family nearby to pick up the slack so one parent needed to be around and he chose that option. His contribution to our family is immense and couldn’t be provided by childcare.
He doesn’t take credit for my actual work but we both know I wouldn’t be able to do half of what’s required in my job if it wasn’t for knowing he was there to ensure our kids are loved, safe and looked after. If the shoe were on the other foot and he didn’t recognise the contribution it would make me very upset.
Also my income would be spent on childcare available 24/7, handymen, launderettes, painters &decorators, gardeners, possibly lots of takeaway food or meal prep businesses without him here so I’d be working the same hours with a lot less to show for it. It’s more than just dropping and picking up kids from school