To expect dog walkers to keep their giant dogs on leash around other peiple

[Thewithesarehere]

I am still quite sick after seeing a dog, nearly my DC’s size, running after my DC knocking them to the ground and running over them.
DC is covered in mud. I was taking a picture of them running to me and it happened in a flash. I shouted at the dog owner who something like put your own children on leash.
Why the hell people don’t keep such huge dogs and then let them off leash in a public park around children? DV is covered in mud, shivering and complaining that their leg hurts where it hit a rock and that they are scared of dogs. I wish I had done more but don’t know what else I could have done.
AIBU in feeling bloody furious?

A weaker being that can kill or maim my child? Yup I see your point
🤦🏻‍♀️
IT HAD NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER OF MAIMING YOUR CHILD!
IT RAN OVER AND ACCIDENTALLY KNOCKED YOUR CHILD OVER.

You cannot violently assault an animal that had no malicious intention whatsoever (if it did it would have bitten your child!) just because it accidentally knocked over your child.
Why the fuck do you think you can?!

If you read the rules in that link, you will find that I would have been perfectly within my rights to kick that dog off my child
I am well aware of the rules.
I am also well aware that unless the dog actually bites a human, in the vast majority of cases absolutely nothing whatsoever will be done and if there are witnesses or the dog is injured as a result of your violent actions it is YOU that will be in trouble.

Unfortunately I froze and then shouted. DH wouldn’t have done the exact opposite. You are expecting far too much from parents. It’s next to impossible to not react
It ran through your child accidentally knocking him over.
It didn’t growl at your child nor snap at your child nor bite your child.
It is not comparable to an aggressive dog threatening your child and I am quite positive that at worst the owners will just be advised to keep better control of said dog.
The police do not have the time to deal with badly trained but non aggressive dogs.

@Swaddlemeinplants
You are constantly trying to make it about me and one specific incident when I and and so many others have pointed out that it is nearly impossible to judge and every situation is different.

I am also constantly taking you back to the main point of this thread: all dogs should be on leads in public spaces. This situation is getting ridiculously out of control in COVID especially.

So don’t be obtuse and please pay attention to what I am trying to communicate.

It is a acceptable to act defensively to something that you have good reason (chasing/barking/jumping) to harm you though. You dont actually have to wait until you are knocked over/bitten.

@Porcupineintherough

It is a acceptable to act defensively to something that you have good reason (chasing/barking/jumping) to harm you though. You dont actually have to wait until you are knocked over/bitten.

Unfortunately, every public space seems swamped by off lead dogs and quite a lot of dog poo now.

The dog owner would be liable. It’s not acceptable to own something that causes upset and fear to the general public going about their business.

I am also constantly taking you back to the main point of this thread: all dogs should be on leads in public spaces. This situation is getting ridiculously out of control in COVID especially
Right, and lots have told you it’s not a good idea and outlined why.

So don’t be obtuse and please pay attention to what I am trying to communicate
What is that exactly?
That all dogs should be leashed?
I disagree with you and I am entitled to disagree.

That you feel it is acceptable to spray and wave/and or hit a dog with a stick?
Utterly unacceptable behaviour that you seem to think you are legally entitled to do.
You are NOT.

Section 1(1)(a) of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 - It is an offence to cruelly beat, ill-treat, kick, over-ride, over-load, torture, infuriate or terrify any domestic or captive animal, or, if you are the owner of any such animal, permit it to be so used or permit any unnecessary suffering to be caused
You are much mistaken if you think spraying, kicking or waving or hitting a dog with a stick resulting in frightening it or causing it injury because it ran near you or jumped up at you is acceptable behaviour and won’t land you in trouble.

The law states that a dog owner is in breach of the dangerous dogs act if the dog is dangerously out of control which is defined as any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so
The chances of the police counting a dog with no prior complaints, that appears friendly and well controlled if the police visit that ran and accidentally knocked someone over or jumped up at someone as ‘dangerously out of control’ is slim to say the least.

OP you just don't listen to the points being made.
You are still determined that you will behave aggressively towards any dog (friendly or not) that comes near you or your children, despite posters repeatedly explaining why this is a Very Bad Idea.

To put this into perspective, a house local to me had a guard dog that hurled itself against the rickety fence growling and snapping and barking.
Everyone was terrified to walk past incase it broke the fence.
The police visited and because the dog appeared friendly and well controlled and because there was a sign warning of a guard dog at the entrance (the other side to the fence!) no action was taken whatsoever.
Eventually the owners installed a new, secure fence but it was their own decision, no one forced them to.

I know of people who have reported dogs that have run at them and jumped up and the police/warden did nothing.

Unless a dog bites you or your children it is highly unlikely anything will be done, whether you like it or not and if you do react violently to said dog it is you who is more likely to get in trouble.

Porcupineintherough- the key part of your post is "have good reason to think the dog will harm you". People who are familiar with dogs will be able to see that a boisterous, over friendly dog is just that; boisterous and over friendly. People who are not familiar with dogs and dont like them will see the same boisterous over friendly dog as dangerous and aggressive, due to their fear and ignorance. Is that a "good reason" to believe the dog will harm them? Of course not, even if they truly believe it. Its lack of knowledge.

Well controlled dogs do not need to be on a lead in all public places. And I am confident and bloody well glad that it won't change

@jenniferjane21 the test in law would be whether it would be reasonable for that individual to believe themselves under threat. The law does not require individuals to be experts in canine behaviour.

If your dog is "over friendly" (nice euphemism there) then keep it on a lead in public spaces.

@LST but poorly controlled dogs should be. That's always been the case but it's never been enforced. If that changes in the future then I see that as a good thing.

Bloody hell your still on about smacking someone’s dog with a walking stick and/or spraying it all because a lab jumped on your child by accident.

I still ask what you said to the owner after freezing.

You won’t take on or learn (you say not your place) the body language of a dog to know the difference between play and aggression as then you’d of known the dog was playing or excited but no from now on you’ll whack said dog well any dog now sadly.

Plus dogs and humans have the right to be in a public park but not in a playground for good reason.

I lead mine when busy but normally they are off lead. You just want to tar everyone with the same brush now

who’s being militant?

@porcupine I agree and have said many times that badly trained dogs should be on a lead. But my argument is that shouldn't affect me and my dog

[quote Porcupineintherough]@LST but poorly controlled dogs should be. That's always been the case but it's never been enforced. If that changes in the future then I see that as a good thing.[/quote]
What is the best pathway to try and increase enforcement of dog laws?
Has anyone had any luck writing to their MP?

@jenniferjane21

OP you just don't listen to the points being made. You are still determined that you will behave aggressively towards any dog (friendly or not) that comes near you or your children, despite posters repeatedly explaining why this is a Very Bad Idea.

There have been so many other posts that posters like are blatantly ignoring: how do I decide that the dog is friendly while my child is under it. My natural instinct is to kick it just like someone wrote here. In that incident, the dog owner went mad at the parent who kicked the dog. I just don’t see why you can’t see it? Also, regarding the law, that is my own responsibility, isn’t it? So why are you so worried I take that chance? What I think is happening here is a few militant dog owners are posting repeatedly and trying to make any number of excuses for off lead and out of control dogs (read the sodding government website shared above: ‘fear’ is the word they used) that come up and hurt children, despite knowing how wrong they are because none of you has responded at to the two questions we keep asking you: 1. How many incidents is too many? And 2. How do you make a split second decision of NOT kicking a dog off your child while your child is UNDER it?

You know very well that there is a constant danger. Others have shown you statistics of the massive rise in incidents, I have given you my own examples and so many others posters have shared their own experiences.
What you are doing is trying to stay in denial that you are actually defending a lot of stupidity and that really is the bottom line because just one incident is too many for a lot of people (examples in the thread from other posters) to not let any approaching dog near their child anymore. DH is quite clear that he will kick anything on four legs that attempts to reach our DC.

What is the best pathway to try and increase enforcement of dog laws?
Has anyone had any luck writing to their MP?
You can’t even think of trying to enforce anything ‘minor’ be it out of control dogs or petty crime or low level anti social behaviour or anything until the government addresses staffing levels in the police.

They are working below minimum safe staffing level in most cases.
That nonsense about 20,000 more officers that was put out by the tories would have simply brought the numbers back to what they originally were before cuts but they were still inadequate then!!

Until the police numbers are (massively) increased there is zero point, they can’t even manage serious crime so they aren’t going to care about minor things.

I still ask what you said to the owner after freezing
I shouted to keep their dog on a leash and their response was to shout back and say I should leash my own children. I will repeat yet again that we were across the field from them and their dog crossed the field to get to us, we were nowhere near them.
You just don’t want to take responsibility. That’s all there is to it really. And majority of posters like you are quite worried that I am right because so many have shared laws, various rules, sprays, their own experiences that you simply can’t deny it anymore. This is why your are trying to take it out on me.

Kick anything on four legs
If an animal is within kicking distance than it's already too close to me, my position is that I don't mind dogs but I don't wish to interact or engage with them.
Off lead dogs should not be approaching members of the public or attempting to interact with them.

@Yohoheaveho

They aren't going to care about minor things in that case we need to be proactive... I suggest carrying stones in your pocket and an extendable stick to fend off any animals which come to close

You can't throw stones at animals which are doing nothing more than sharing a space with you. That's batshit.

@Yohoheaveho

They aren't going to care about minor things in that case we need to be proactive... I suggest carrying stones in your pocket and an extendable stick to fend off any animals which come to close

Nope. You should wait until your child or you are bloody and bitten thoroughly. You will be attacked by the rabid owner if you do anything before that.

Oh so we are now stoning off lead dogs too!

Op as has been said all throughout the thread. What the owner said to you was ridiculous but to go on to deliberately set out to harm animals as a result of the fact you are pissed off with the owners response is also ridiculous and cruel.

OP you ask how you decide whether a dog is going to harm your children.
That is precisely the point I am making; you need to become familiar with dogs so that you can accurately understand their behaviour rather than reacting to all fogs out of fear. Spend time with dogs who belong to friends and family, take a quiet one for a walk. Learn about them.
I understand you are afraid that a dog coming over to you and your children might hurt you but you are being irrational for the 99.9% of dogs you are meeting.

And if your child is "under the dog" you have been told how to react. Pick up child, give a hug, check they are ok, tell them the dog was being silly, too excited etc and carry on. Dont actively reinforce your child's fear.
I would suggest its because your child has picked up on your fear that they were "under the dog". Any child familiar with dogs (see the theme) would know how to react to a large, friendly dog. And if they did fall over, in the absence of actual aggression, biting etc, it would not be the end of the world.

So go and volunteer at a local dog rescue.