To expect dog walkers to keep their giant dogs on leash around other peiple

[Thewithesarehere]

I am still quite sick after seeing a dog, nearly my DC’s size, running after my DC knocking them to the ground and running over them.
DC is covered in mud. I was taking a picture of them running to me and it happened in a flash. I shouted at the dog owner who something like put your own children on leash.
Why the hell people don’t keep such huge dogs and then let them off leash in a public park around children? DV is covered in mud, shivering and complaining that their leg hurts where it hit a rock and that they are scared of dogs. I wish I had done more but don’t know what else I could have done.
AIBU in feeling bloody furious?

Wow @GreenlandTheMovie. Here after the people attack the dog would have been declared dangerous with very stringent rules and requirements and big fines for not complying. If the attacks on other dogs drew blood, very likely to be the same outcome. I can't imagine a dog that has had multiple attacks reported being allowed out and about. The utter idiocy of the owner is mind blowing. Allowing a known vicious dog off lead and unsupervised. That's a civil law suit for sure.

Gosh this thread is astonishing.

I suggested the police deterrent spray to the OP as a kinder alternative to a stick and an illegal harmful spray.

The spray isn't necessary in the first place unless the dog is actually vicious.

The OP has gone on to say she will spray the dog and then hit it with a stick.

I think that there is more than meets the eye here. The OP clearly hates dogs.

And yes NOT ONE PERSON on this thread has condoned the dog owner.

The OP has repeatedly ignored sensible advise from dog owners.

She just wants to hurt dogs as some form of retaliation for an over excited dog wanting to say hello to her child.

Because make no mistake if the dog WAS aggressive as has been suggested it wouldn't only have knocked her child over.

If you don't allow your dogs to approach people unsolicited then they aren't at risk of people retaliating. My dogs are always in a tight heel whenever there are people close by. If people ask to pat them we stop and get a pat. If not, the people pass unmolested, despite the westie's best efforts to be a cutie and get attention.

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

Well this is the government take on dogs

@k1233

If you don't allow your dogs to approach people unsolicited then they aren't at risk of people retaliating. My dogs are always in a tight heel whenever there are people close by. If people ask to pat them we stop and get a pat. If not, the people pass unmolested, despite the westie's best efforts to be a cutie and get attention.

well agreed, but it's still not a proportionate or sensible response to hit an animal with a stick.

If the dog is aggressive it will escalate things.

If the dog was friendly before well you've just created a problem.

@PortiasPlumUpduffedPudding

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

Well this is the government take on dogs

Yes but dogs are "part of the family" so how dare anyone tell their owners that they can't do whatever they like.

Some dog owners are entitled because their dogs cost so much and they see them as a status symbol. Dogs used to be pets. Now they're a statement of wealth.

I dont understand why those saying they would go crazy at someone hitting their dog are so opposed to putting their dog on a lead. The lead is to keep them safe too.
I put my dog on a lead in busy places for several reasons
a)its unfair on those who are allergic/frightened of dogs, they are entitled to enjoy the space without fear. It doesnt matter if my dog wont hurt them. I'm afraid of spiders even though they wont hurt me.
b) Her friendly intentions could be mistaken for aggression and a person may hurt her thinking they need to defend themselves
c) the environment isnt controllable. Another unleashed dog could approach her, she could snap at someone trying to pet her etc..(highly unlikely, she has never snapped or bitten anyone but I've personal experience of a normally calm dog biting a child in a moment of confusion)
My dog gets plenty of exercise and can enjoy her walk on a lead when she needs to be on it.
The other day I was walking through the park and a boisterous pup (large breed so quite big) banged into the pram. I told its owner it should really be on a lead. She said it's a pup so it cant so that much harm Dog owners like that give everyone else a bad name.

I dont understand why those saying they would go crazy at someone hitting their dog are so opposed to putting their dog on a lead.

TBF I don't think anyone has said it is reasonable for a dog to be out of control and that dogs shouldn't be on leads if they cannot be kept under control.

Just had another lovely off lead walk with my dog on my local fields. Kids playing dog having fun. What a shame it would be for my dog to be kept leashed in this situation just because of the actions of a few.

And to answer your question @op I have had zero instances of my dog being a nuisance to anyone. Other peoples dogs shouldn't come into it. I am talking about mine. If someone cannot control their dog off lead, I will say again, they should remain on lead!

@cantdothisnow1 unfortunately a lot of people think their dog is under their control. If your dog has gotten to the point of someone is hitting it with a stick to get it to go away then it's out of your control. Out of control doesnt just mean aggressive, its also means excitable and jumping on others playfully.
I think saying the dog was just over excited and wanted to say hello is an example of how some dog owners think everyone else should love their dog as much as they do. A dog shouldn't be going up to say hello without the express invitation of the other person and without been given permission by its owner. If you cant ensure that, then put your dog on a lead.

[quote babbafett]@cantdothisnow1 unfortunately a lot of people think their dog is under their control. If your dog has gotten to the point of someone is hitting it with a stick to get it to go away then it's out of your control. Out of control doesnt just mean aggressive, its also means excitable and jumping on others playfully.
I think saying the dog was just over excited and wanted to say hello is an example of how some dog owners think everyone else should love their dog as much as they do. A dog shouldn't be going up to say hello without the express invitation of the other person and without been given permission by its owner. If you cant ensure that, then put your dog on a lead.[/quote]
I don't let my dog run up to strangers to say hello, she is a young golden retriever, I slip the lead on her if i see children about because she sees them as playmates, she has been trained not to jump up people so doesn't but you can never be 100% sure. No one on this thread has said that they think it is reasonable for a dog to approach children in any manner. Dog owners should be mindful that not everyone loves dogs.

Put it another way:

Do you think, as a dog owner, it is a sensible/proportionate approach for a person to go for a walk with deterrent spray and a stick to attack a dog that may approach them ?

No I dont think it's a sensible approach but that's why I dont let my dog get close. I cannot predict how someone else would react to my dog. You said up thread that it was just an over excited dog that wanted to say hello. If my dog came running over and knocked someones child over without any encouragement from the parent or child then I wouldn't be surprised if the parent tried to scare her away by any means possible. What the OP is suggesting may make the situation worse but I cannot expect everyone in the park to be clued into a dogs body language or be experienced in how to handle a boisterous excitable dog.
Dont get me wrong, I adore my dog. I wouldnt tolerate people harming her. She is a very friendly dog and when guests arrive I warn them she likes to jump up looking for a rub on the head and we do introductions in the garden. If guests arent comfortable with her jumping around and looking for attention off of them I let her play in the garden while they are here.

unfortunately a lot of people think their dog is under their control. If your dog has gotten to the point of someone is hitting it with a stick to get it to go away then it's out of your control. Out of control doesnt just mean aggressive, its also means excitable and jumping on others playfully
I agree, it’s unacceptable behaviour, however, that does not mean it is acceptable or sensible to react violently in response.

The dog owner is likely to react violently themselves to protect their pet so from a self preservation standpoint it is an idiotic thing to do.

The dog is likely to go one of two ways, Yelp and run away and possibly react aggressively the next time because they’ve just been trained that unknown people violently attack and therefore need to frightened away, offence is the best defence and all that.

Or, the dog is going to get defensive and attack the person with the spray/stick.
Most medium and upwards sized dogs can cause severe injury to people if they are determined to do so.
They are very strong for their size and extremely fast.
Most people will struggle to successfully fight off a truly aggressive determined dog who intends to damage.
Which is, fortunately, very rare.

I do wonder too, if breeds are relevant here.
Those who would be comfortable thwacking say, a cocker spaniel, I wonder if they would be quite so reckless against a German Shepherd dog, or a Rottweiler, or a Great Dane.
Dogs which could kill you extremely easily if they wanted to because of their size.
Something tells me probably not.

@PortiasPlumUpduffedPudding

Threats of violence to a human are out of order and are fucking vile. It really is quite simple keep your slathering mutt on a lead and don't let it near small children However I suspect keyboard warrior ship is very different from reality

You keep using the word 'slathering'. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

The word you're looking for is 'slavering'.

@cantdothisnow1 your posts sum it up perfectly! Majority of dog owners are aware it's the few that give us all a bad name

Ironically my dog is better behaved off the lead then she is on the lead she suffers lead anxiety especially with certain breeds of dogs, off the lead she will walk to heel as she knows that if she feels threatened she has the space to get away.

But even knowing this I will put her on a lead of its a narrow path or hold her collar past people especially with children as I get that she's big!

@Swaddlemeinplants

unfortunately a lot of people think their dog is under their control. If your dog has gotten to the point of someone is hitting it with a stick to get it to go away then it's out of your control. Out of control doesnt just mean aggressive, its also means excitable and jumping on others playfully I agree, it’s unacceptable behaviour, however, that does not mean it is acceptable or sensible to react violently in response.

The dog owner is likely to react violently themselves to protect their pet so from a self preservation standpoint it is an idiotic thing to do.

The dog is likely to go one of two ways, Yelp and run away and possibly react aggressively the next time because they’ve just been trained that unknown people violently attack and therefore need to frightened away, offence is the best defence and all that.

Or, the dog is going to get defensive and attack the person with the spray/stick.
Most medium and upwards sized dogs can cause severe injury to people if they are determined to do so.
They are very strong for their size and extremely fast.
Most people will struggle to successfully fight off a truly aggressive determined dog who intends to damage.
Which is, fortunately, very rare.

I do wonder too, if breeds are relevant here.
Those who would be comfortable thwacking say, a cocker spaniel, I wonder if they would be quite so reckless against a German Shepherd dog, or a Rottweiler, or a Great Dane.
Dogs which could kill you extremely easily if they wanted to because of their size.
Something tells me probably not.

Some people have a genuine fear and will react violently as a result. I'm afraid of spiders and cats. Neither can really cause me harm but doesnt mean I dont react badly when one is near me. One evening at a friends house their cat randomly jumped up and clung onto my arm. I screamed and swung my arm about shouting. No doubt terrifying the cat. I think I tried to swat it off. I probably made the situation worse but the point is I wasnt thinking as I was terrified. I try to imagine that's how some people feel towards my gorgeous friendly dog and how they might react similarly if she were to jump up on them. It's not the right response and I dont think the OP should go out with that intention but I can easily see how that could happen.

As I said before, my dog is a giant breed - 55kg. She is frightened of dogs since being attacked. Because of this, she wears a bright yellow coat that says “Nervous, Don’t Touch!”. She has a halter that a lot of people assume is a muzzle (it isn’t, and she could still snap or bite if she wanted to.) Because she’s nervous around dogs, I certainly wouldn’t trust her with little kids when she’s anxious (or ever at all if I wasn’t holding her with her halter on.) Do you think any of these things stop people from approaching me with small kids (and often floofy dogs in tow) thinking that my dog is the perfect antidote to their kid’s nervousness around large dogs (often while I am trying to calm her while waiting to cross the road.)? I try to avoid having her out at times when she is likely to be hyperstimulated and jumpy, but guaranteed, some fool will think that they know better than me.... Then, when I explain that she is anxious and I don’t want them touching her or talking to her, they argue the point. It’s ridiculous. Dogs really bring out the worst in people even when you’re trying to do the right thing!!!

@cantdothisnow1

Gosh this thread is astonishing.

I suggested the police deterrent spray to the OP as a kinder alternative to a stick and an illegal harmful spray.

The spray isn't necessary in the first place unless the dog is actually vicious.

The OP has gone on to say she will spray the dog and then hit it with a stick.

I think that there is more than meets the eye here. The OP clearly hates dogs.

And yes NOT ONE PERSON on this thread has condoned the dog owner.

The OP has repeatedly ignored sensible advise from dog owners.

She just wants to hurt dogs as some form of retaliation for an over excited dog wanting to say hello to her child.

You are being dramatic and over the top but you most likely know this. Go back and share just one post of mine, and I have written loads on here, that shows I hate dogs. Someone posted a link upthread to the government guidelines. Any parent is perfectly within their rights to defend their child. I think any excessive force might not be needed in most cases but not al parents will share my view (see some posts above) and rightly so too.

How will you behave if my child started to jump your dog and starts hitting it?

Don’t be a militant.

How will you behave if my child started to jump your dog and starts hitting it?
I don’t know about you, but I definitely wouldn’t spray him/her and wave and/or smack him/her with a stick....

I’d stand infront of my dog and block said child and have words with the child’s parent.

Same as if a boisterous (but not aggressive) dog ran at my child.
Block the dog if I can get there quick enough, if not, block the dog from the now knocked down child, have words with the idiot owner, comfort child and explain to child the silly dog wasn’t watching where it was going. What a silly dog. Ask if DC is okay, huh and a kiss, continue with walk.

What I wouldn’t do is get hysterical and spray and hit the dog.

i dont understand why those saying they would go crazy at someone hitting their dog are so opposed to putting their dog on a lead. The lead is to keep them safe too.

From what I understand after this thread:

1. Some dog owners think their dog is equal to other people’s children and should be treated that way.

1. Nearly dog owners with off lead dogs trust their pet. (I have said earlier that I see it as them trusting their judgement of their pet, not the pet).

1. Anyone who defends their child with a spray or a stick or a kick is within their legal right to do so as they feel threatened (as per the government website above) is a lunatic and a dog hater.

1. All parents are expected to understand the body language of an animal THEY don’t have and don’t want anywhere near child.

1. Vast majority of dog owners are responsible and reasonable but it’s a minority that is giving everyone a bad name.

1. Quite a few other developed countries have designated safe spaces for off lead dogs and this should be brought in here too, considering the massive rise in incidences in recent past.

@Swaddlemeinplants

How will you behave if my child started to jump your dog and starts hitting it? I don’t know about you, but I definitely wouldn’t spray him/her and wave and/or smack him/her with a stick....

I’d stand infront of my dog and block said child and have words with the child’s parent.

Same as if a boisterous (but not aggressive) dog ran at my child.
Block the dog if I can get there quick enough, if not, block the dog from the now knocked down child, have words with the idiot owner, comfort child and explain to child the silly dog wasn’t watching where it was going. What a silly dog. Ask if DC is okay, huh and a kiss, continue with walk.

What I wouldn’t do is get hysterical and spray and hit the dog.

You wouldn’t spray my child with anything because you know my child can’t kill or maim your dog.

So let’s talk about equal treatment (a child vs a dog FFS!?) when there is a power balance.

You wouldn’t spray my child with anything because you know my child can’t kill or maim your dog
I wouldn’t spray your child because I’m not a cunt that injures beings weaker than myself.

So let’s talk about equal treatment (a child vs a dog FFS!?) when there is a power balance
Unless you are acting in self defence against a person or an animal that is actually trying to harm you it is not acceptable to use violence.
It is not and never will be acceptable to react violently to someone or something who means no malice but irritates you or accidentally hurts you.

@Swaddlemeinplants

You wouldn’t spray my child with anything because you know my child can’t kill or maim your dog I wouldn’t spray your child because I’m not a cunt that injures beings weaker than myself.

So let’s talk about equal treatment (a child vs a dog FFS!?) when there is a power balance
Unless you are acting in self defence against a person or an animal that is actually trying to harm you it is not acceptable to use violence.
It is not and never will be acceptable to react violently to someone or something who means no malice but irritates you or accidentally hurts you.

A weaker being that can kill or maim my child? Yup I see your point. If you read the rules in that link, you will find that I would have been perfectly within my rights to kick that dog off my child. Unfortunately I froze and then shouted. DH wouldn’t have done the exact opposite. You are expecting far too much from parents. It’s next to impossible to not react. And like I said earlier, we have seen a massive rise in dogs around here, off lead or not, and this is only going to get worse.