Hunting on Boxing Day

[GreyMary23]

I've seen numerous reports about Boxing Day hunts going ahead yesterday. What the fuck? I despise hunting anyway - like most decent/sane people - but to allow it to go ahead when so many are spending Christmas alone due to covid is utterly unbelievable. Before anyone says it's because it's outdoors, so is children's sport yet my dc haven't been able to attend rugby or football training in weeks.

How on Earth was this allowed to happen?

Foodles you might like to think it's utter tosh but you'd have to believe that posters like myself are lying all the time, every time, about our own personal experiences with hunt, hunt followers and sabs.

I've had unpleasant experiences with all but only ever been threatened by sabs. And I too have seen sabs deliberately grab people, even children on small ponies, scare horses, shout and scream at followers, seen them kick vehicles, people, horses and dogs, lay trails into back gardens, mine included.

It doesn't help convince anyone of anything if you consistently refuse to ignore the realities of a situation.

I’ve had experience of sabs at drag hunts (in the days when drag hunts definitely didn’t hunt anything). They were quite scary and I don’t agree with everything they do. However I understand their passion for their cause (I an very much anti hunting) and their frustration at the blatant disregard of the law by a lot of these hunts. I can understand why it often ends in anger. And I’m always a little 😏 at people wittering on about the awful sabs pulling and the aggression around children on a hunt field, while thinking it’s acceptable for a child to see a fox ripped apart by a frenzied pack of hounds and have the blood wiped on their faces. I don’t think the field is the right place for a child, they are “brainwashed” to be pro hunting from a young age by their “brainwashed” parents. That’s why hunting people can rarely see any the other side of the arguement.

We'll, I am not a hunting person, for a start.

I'm not defending any hunt that breaks the law.

Where I live I know the people who set the trails, the people who ride, the small kids who have no knowledge or expectations of an actual fox being involved.

I know that this is vehemently denied by sabs but our 2 local hunts do not hunt foxes. These days half of them ride with cameras, sabs aim for those people. Why? If sabs do nothing wrong, if their footage is real and only shows the hunt acting illegally why specifically aim to take out the hunt cameras?

Is it perhaps because the footage shows a perfectly legal outing? Maybe sabs acting badly? Maybe both?

I don't know about all hunts. But the few people do know about bear no resemblance to the descriptions given here.

It's a bit like the PETA leaflets about vivisection. I know the pictures are about 30 years old... I know one of the men who is supposed to be a vivisectionist. He died in the 90s - and was not involved in animal experiments. But the lies proliferate until they are believed.

@RosesAndHellebores

One could say that the hunt is as bad as the gang that hunts down the more vulnerable or indebted teenage boy and attacks with knives.

If the sabs really and truly care about life I would venture to suggest their efforts would be better put to use elsewhere.

I'm pretty sure any anti cares about a lot of society's failings, not just hunting 😉 it's not a competition- you can care about more than one issue at a time.

[quote DHdweller]@foodlesnoodles I wouldn’t bin your balaclava or shut down your go fund me page for vehicle repairs just yet[/quote]
🤣🤣🤣 I have never worn a balaclava. As for go fund me pages, I've seen quite a few hunts with their begging buckets not to mention the council grants they had this year.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Foodles you might like to think it's utter tosh but you'd have to believe that posters like myself are lying all the time, every time, about our own personal experiences with hunt, hunt followers and sabs.

I've had unpleasant experiences with all but only ever been threatened by sabs. And I too have seen sabs deliberately grab people, even children on small ponies, scare horses, shout and scream at followers, seen them kick vehicles, people, horses and dogs, lay trails into back gardens, mine included.

It doesn't help convince anyone of anything if you consistently refuse to ignore the realities of a situation.

Sabs laying trails? 🤣 with what? No hunt I've dealt with has ever revealed their scent source... as for the other allegations, I'm afraid, whilst I wouldn't ever doubt anyone's experience, that's something I've personally witnessed.

I have been threatened and assaulted and had my property damaged and been covered in bruises by hunt support and "security" - I'm very middle class, a professional, and a parent - and not a thug. Neither are any of the antis I know. The whole sab persona is designed to belittle 🙄

As with any incident on either side, I'd advise it's recorded and submitted to the police.

@Ditchedtheuselesswanker

Well the lovely sabs today have driven deliberately at a horse. Not to mention trespassing on private land nowhere near a footpath

Trespass is a civil offence and I'm sure that if there were any sabs present on land, it's to prevent any accidents. I'd say with the rate of accidents hunts seem to have, it's a good thing. No one wants a kill after all, do they? 😉

What I can't understand is the lack of trails being published - drag hunts do it - and an invitation to antis to monitor the hunt so that everyone is happy it's all above board.

Why do you think drag hunts don't have Sabs present? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Foodles I give in. I have said, repeatedly, that I don't doubt that some hunts will act like that. But that belittling sab persona is, in my experience, based entirely on the aggressive sabs I have met.

Had I never been threatened, seen sabs laying false trails - I dont know what they use but the HSA says they lay trails as well as masking trails (they say using lemon juice one local pack had a few hounds hurt and the local vet thought bleach may have been used) - or been followed home, had my property photographed, trespassed on I wouldn't have such a negative view of them!

But, as I have also said repeatedly, I wouldn't assume all sabs are the same.

I'm pretty sure any anti cares about a lot of society's failings, not just hunting

Very possibly they do, but sticking with the "animal rights" thing I'll ask again ... why do the sabs appear to concentrate on hunting and have so little involvement in other blood sports?

Sorry, but I've yet to see anything to change my view that this is more about dislike of the hunter than concern for the hunted

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Foodles I give in. I have said, repeatedly, that I don't doubt that some hunts will act like that. But that belittling sab persona is, in my experience, based entirely on the aggressive sabs I have met.

Had I never been threatened, seen sabs laying false trails - I dont know what they use but the HSA says they lay trails as well as masking trails (they say using lemon juice one local pack had a few hounds hurt and the local vet thought bleach may have been used) - or been followed home, had my property photographed, trespassed on I wouldn't have such a negative view of them!

But, as I have also said repeatedly, I wouldn't assume all sabs are the same.

I'm really sorry you've experienced that, it must have been pretty scary.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I'm pretty sure any anti cares about a lot of society's failings, not just hunting

Very possibly they do, but sticking with the "animal rights" thing I'll ask again ... why do the sabs appear to concentrate on hunting and have so little involvement in other blood sports?

Sorry, but I've yet to see anything to change my view that this is more about dislike of the hunter than concern for the hunted

What do you mean? What other blood sports do you think aren't being looked into?

The increasing theft of dogs for instance.

They aren't all being taken to sell on. Some are taken to fight, others as bait, bitches of some breeds to get specific fighting crosses.

Problem is that it also has a racist angle as 'dog men' are predominantly from Eastern Europe, dogs bred, trained and traded across Europe.

@Puzzledandpissedoff
Which other blood sports? Can you please give an example?

@CuriousaboutSamphire

The increasing theft of dogs for instance.

They aren't all being taken to sell on. Some are taken to fight, others as bait, bitches of some breeds to get specific fighting crosses.

Problem is that it also has a racist angle as 'dog men' are predominantly from Eastern Europe, dogs bred, trained and traded across Europe.

I'm not sure of the point you're making here?

Plenty of antis I know are involved in tracking lost or stolen animals.

If you're talking about dog fighting or badger baiting or the like, I know a few who are involved in exposing that and evidence gathering for prosecutions.

Antis don't sab hunts as a one off or because of the class system - they do it because they care. Because it's the morally right thing to do and they're likely involved in other areas of activism.

I suspect we are talking at cross purposes.

However the only people I know tracking stolen dogs used for fighting are dog owners, usually middle aged, many female.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I suspect we are talking at cross purposes.

However the only people I know tracking stolen dogs used for fighting are dog owners, usually middle aged, many female.

Perhaps.

There are a lot of good people out there who care for animals I think is the key takeaway here.

The whole sab persona is designed to belittle
It is indeed, but at least in part sabs bring it on themselves. I've seen a video from a huntsman's GoPro as he walks through a copse, shouting at sabs, but politely, to leave his hounds alone and stop spraying them with an unknown substance, and get off private land, and the sabs response is one long string of 'fuck off, fucking fuck off, fuck fuck fuck...'

Perhaps?

I know I am probably reading more people not the 'tone' of your posts than you intend but please stop dismissing other perspectives. You've done it to me and others all through this thread!

I am a short round mid 50s lifelong animal rights supporter. To my shame was part of PETA and others back in the 80s. I learned the hard way how well meaning individuals can get caught up by the downright vicious activists.

The real take away from this is don't believe everything you read or see on SM. The reality of most of it would make you cry!

I just can't get past the whole wanting the dogs to catch a fox and rip it apart. For entertainment.

That's not my type of entertainment or anyone I want to associate with's entertainment.

It's disgusting. It's fucking vile. Anyone who does this, or knowingly associates with people who agree with this are also vile.

What's next? Hunger games??

I appreciate foxes are a nuisance but ffs get better pens for hens etc. Not rip them apart for entertainment. It's vile. Inhumane and I'd be ashamed of any of my relatives or friends if they did this.

@nancybotwinbloom

I just can't get past the whole wanting the dogs to catch a fox and rip it apart. For entertainment.

That's not my type of entertainment or anyone I want to associate with's entertainment.

It's disgusting. It's fucking vile. Anyone who does this, or knowingly associates with people who agree with this are also vile.

What's next? Hunger games??

I appreciate foxes are a nuisance but ffs get better pens for hens etc. Not rip them apart for entertainment. It's vile. Inhumane and I'd be ashamed of any of my relatives or friends if they did this.

This. There are far better ways to do a controlled cull as painless as possible. But it has to be hounds. I can’t comprehend it. It has to be certain type of black soul to see it and take part in this in any form.

I see PPs have already answered this, but yes - by "other blood sports" I meant dog fighting, cock fighting and so on

I do also accept that some sabs may involve themselves in this, but looking through various SM sites it really does mostly come back to hunting and I just wonder why that is

I am horsey and have pro hunting friends. I can never understand how they can possibly believe that it’s a humane/quick way to kill a fox. They reckon a dog will go for the neck and it’s instant. Like if two hounds got hold of a leg each in the frenzy they’re going to go “oh hang on, gotta let go of that bit!” And how do you train a dog to kill another dog (which is pretty much what a fox is)? To me there’s very little difference between someone who enjoys killing foxes by hunting and someone who fights dogs. And I’m really baffled by my pro hunting friends that claim to be against animal cruelty.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I see PPs have already answered this, but yes - by "other blood sports" I meant dog fighting, cock fighting and so on

I do also accept that some sabs may involve themselves in this, but looking through various SM sites it really does mostly come back to hunting and I just wonder why that is

Don’t know about the sabs but I heard about a dog fight from a colleague, close to where I live. They lost all my respect after that.

@Thewithesarehere

I'm not country I'm city.

But at what point do you say "oh this is acceptable"

Sorry but I feel sick at the thought that anyone thinks hunting for entertainment is acceptable. And in my view, hunting is catching snd eating. Not catching, watching it get ripped apart for fun. Catching and eating I get. There is a point. Living off the land, I get. Catching, killing for no point, well your fucking vile. If you are not eating what you catch, your vile.

To do it in a group, your worse than vile.
To let and encourage your children to join in, you are the worst of the worst.

I've never heard of people wiping the tail of foxes on children's faces till I read this thread. That will stay with me forever. Made my stomach turn. I wish I'd never read that.

I have no words.

@Honeyroar

They wouldn't be my friends.

I feel so strongly about this. I couldn't be friends with them.

How do they justify this. Or do you turn a blind eye? (No judgement) but I just couldn't.

They have views they would pass on the my dc.