Hunting on Boxing Day

[GreyMary23]

I've seen numerous reports about Boxing Day hunts going ahead yesterday. What the fuck? I despise hunting anyway - like most decent/sane people - but to allow it to go ahead when so many are spending Christmas alone due to covid is utterly unbelievable. Before anyone says it's because it's outdoors, so is children's sport yet my dc haven't been able to attend rugby or football training in weeks.

How on Earth was this allowed to happen?

@Thewithesarehere my post reads like I am challenging you I'm not. I'm sorry I'm just so het up.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post

@Honeyroar

I'd find different friends.

I know it's harder In real life than MN but I just couldn't be friends with people with these views.

I know. The one who was a proper friend is dead now. We’d had some discussions about it over the years. The others aren’t really friends, more acquaintances.

My DH has friends from work who do this. They are his bosses.

I've never been introduced to them.
I don't think I ever will be. Thank fuck for them.

I'm not sure what he tells them. I don't ask. To keep the peace. He says nothing at the min. To keep his job.

There will be a day where we will have to socialise.

I'm already not popular as in I'm known as being very forward about this. Cannot wait. I will be vocal as fuck about it.

@StylishMummy

Anything in T4 has been cancelled & others have gone ahead as they're organised sport outdoors. Hunts on Boxing Day is a centuries old tradition - Why do you hate them so much? Hunts contribute a lot of money to the upkeep of the countryside & most hunts only drag/scent hunt with no harm to animals. YABU

Because hunts are gross and there’s no need, even for drag hunts. There’s lots of traditional things we don’t do or need anymore.

How exactly do hunts contribute to the upkeep of the countryside?

I just can't get past the whole wanting the dogs to catch a fox and rip it apart. For entertainment

I don’t think any hunt staff or followers want to watch the kill, let alone enjoy it!
It’s rather a grim part of a traditional fox hunt, designed to reward hounds and cull vermin, not entertain hunt followers!

Even in the days when hunting was legal hardly any of the mounted field were present at the kill (the huntsman would be first on the scene followed by the terrier men to retrieve the corpse) while the field master held all the riders back. Kids on ponies and ‘Hilltoppers’ would be far from the scene of the kill, at least a few fields/woods behind!

The most the average rider knew of a kill was the huntsman blowing the horn (a particular note) to signal the fox was dead, or a message passed from rider to rider that ‘Charlie’s accounted for’ (meaning hounds have killed so the gallop is over).

Most people who hunt (or hunted) do so for the thrill of the gallops, jumping walls and gates, sliding down banks, splashing through rivers and leaping up the other side, crashing through woods. It’s a sport where there are very few rules. Hedges, walls, water, fences all become jumps. Unlike most equestrian sports that are regimented, controlled and rarely involve galloping alongside friends, hunting had a sort of freedom and danger about it.

People hunt(ed) for the adrenaline rush of riding like this, not because they wanted to see a fox being killed.

I see no difference between people who go fox hunting and those who get a cat to deal with mice.

We're meant to pretend we dont know they actually are hunting foxes, for some reason?

They treat the dogs like shit as well. Known of one pompous drunk twat who shot one of them to show of to his mates.

@user1471565182 what happened when you reported him to the police?

You can't compare it to a contact sport like Rugby... 🙄

Drag hunting, if done properly, does not harm any foxes- so I think people should get off their soap boxes. It’s a perfectly “decent” thing to do. It’s not illegal or immoral. True fox hunting is no longer legal. I suspect it is ignorance of the current hunt situation which drives all the outrage re hunting.

If it is not in tier 4, it is legal to meet outdoors. How close do you think people get when out hunting? Hunts in tier 4 should have cancelled (and I understand had been).

@jacks11

Drag hunting, if done properly, does not harm any foxes- so I think people should get off their soap boxes. It’s a perfectly “decent” thing to do. It’s not illegal or immoral. True fox hunting is no longer legal. I suspect it is ignorance of the current hunt situation which drives all the outrage re hunting.

If it is not in tier 4, it is legal to meet outdoors. How close do you think people get when out hunting? Hunts in tier 4 should have cancelled (and I understand had been).

What is drag hunting vs fox hunting?

@HikeForward

I just can't get past the whole wanting the dogs to catch a fox and rip it apart. For entertainment

I don’t think any hunt staff or followers want to watch the kill, let alone enjoy it!
It’s rather a grim part of a traditional fox hunt, designed to reward hounds and cull vermin, not entertain hunt followers!

Even in the days when hunting was legal hardly any of the mounted field were present at the kill (the huntsman would be first on the scene followed by the terrier men to retrieve the corpse) while the field master held all the riders back. Kids on ponies and ‘Hilltoppers’ would be far from the scene of the kill, at least a few fields/woods behind!

The most the average rider knew of a kill was the huntsman blowing the horn (a particular note) to signal the fox was dead, or a message passed from rider to rider that ‘Charlie’s accounted for’ (meaning hounds have killed so the gallop is over).

Most people who hunt (or hunted) do so for the thrill of the gallops, jumping walls and gates, sliding down banks, splashing through rivers and leaping up the other side, crashing through woods. It’s a sport where there are very few rules. Hedges, walls, water, fences all become jumps. Unlike most equestrian sports that are regimented, controlled and rarely involve galloping alongside friends, hunting had a sort of freedom and danger about it.

People hunt(ed) for the adrenaline rush of riding like this, not because they wanted to see a fox being killed.

There is so much wrong with this post I don’t know where to start

Drag hunting isn't even the same as trail hunting!

Hm. Quote fail. But honestly, raging against hunting when you use those terms (drag and trail hunting) interchangeably seems rather ridiculous.

One of the benefits of hunting with dogs vs hunting with guns is it actually improves the health of the general fox population.

But if foxes are vermin and predators, surely we don't want to do that?

I think the hatred and ignorance about hunting on mumsnet is pretty self explanatory. It's a forum where so many are desperate to prove their middle class status, and yet regardless of how many references they make to shopping at Waitrose, how many patronising or insulting remarks made about the working class, no matter how horrified you are by McDonalds or council estates, the country/ hunting is the one area you will be rightfully perceived as a pretentious ass never be accepted as middle class and superior to the masses. Not least because hunting is a sport that genuinely doesn't care about your background or class, despite the media stereotype. It has fuck all to do with the faux concern about illegal hunting.

I drag hunted pre ban, as I do now. It has no more relevance to live quarry or animal welfare than eventing or show jumping or any other equestrian sport. That's never stopped the thick as fuck sabs targeting it though, or prevented them from committing atrocities to humans and animals under the guise of animal welfare.

I have no time or respect for anyone hunting illegally, and would report it without a second thought. But at least they wouldn't be hypocritical enough to pretend they cared about animal cruelty whilst harming animals, which is more than can be said for sabs. It astounds me that anyone can go about wounding and killing animals and then justify their sick actions as a strong belief in animal welfare. It also beggars belief that the same scum gloat and laugh when innocent children are harmed or killed because of a real or imagined connection to hunting. Like many, I wouldn't piss on a sab to put them out, but I can't imagine being warped enough to rejoice in, let alone deliberately cause, harm to their children.

Hunt monitors are entirely different and worthy of respect, but I suppose if your motivation is seething (and incidentally misplaced) class resentment, a desire to hurt horses and hounds, and generally run around the countryside in a balaclava behaving like a twat, then joining the hunt monitors really isn't going to appeal.

@foodlesnoodles

I am pro-hunt, generally speaking. Though do think they should follow the law and if they don’t, then need to accept the consequences. I can also see why people feel differently about hunting than I do, even if I don’t agree.

I have both drag and trail hunted, I’ve also hunted (including as a child). Some of the things that are supposed to happen (blooding children, for instance) don’t- and haven’t for many years. I’ve never seen a fox ripped apart, though of course the hounds did kill the fox. I don’t know anyone who actually went for the purpose of seeing the fox killed. I have not been on a trail hunt where a fox was killed. I am aware it happens though. I have not seen a hunt supporter attack a hunt sab, but am aware it does happen.

If I can admit that hunts and those that hunt or support hunting do not always behave well, can others admit hunt sabs are also more than capable of similarly awful behaviour? And not dismiss others experiences, just as I am not suggesting those that have bad experiences with hunt supporters are making it up or ‘rare”. They aren’t, in my experience.

If I am naive to think most hunts try to follow the law for the most part, maybe sabs supporters who think fellow sabs don’t set out to cause trouble, including harm to horses, hounds and hunt supporters (children seem fair game) are similarly naive?

I have to say that I have come across some very aggressive sabs, some of whom have really frightened me. I do think some perhaps get carried away as they feel strongly. Some are just out and out thugs. The idea they are all well behaved and never cause trouble is not credible. I have seen, on more than one occasion, dangerous behaviour towards horses (including children on small ponies) and the hounds. One case actually caused serious injury to a horse, subsequently had to be put down, but the sab could not be identified to be charged. My mother-in-law has also come across sabs laying scent across some of their land (where the hunt were to avoid due to livestock concerns- no idea if hunt sabs new this or not) and into her garden. When challenged, she was physically intimidated by 2 men, who pointed out they knew who she was and where she lived and if they got a call from the police, they’d know who to blame. She was too frightened to report. It took her months to get over it.

I suspect that some sabs resort to underhand behaviour to try and cause trouble as they get caught up in the situation. Sometimes I think that it’s so they can film only part of what happened and try to use it to support a prosecution.

I am perfectly aware hunts do break the law, i’m aware some hunt staff and followers are rude and/or aggressive. That is not acceptable either.

I don’t think we should pretend that either side are exempt from awful behaviour.

One of the benefits of hunting with dogs vs hunting with guns is it actually improves the health of the general fox population.
Now I have seen all

Of course they don't care. The filthy bastards raced through the grounds of Peterborough crem guffawing at the "plebs" - their words to describe the people berating them to show some respect. They have none at all. At all. For any life fox, dog, horse or human. They have contempt for everyone. If it was legal they deliberately laid trail through the grounds of an active crematorium or they were breaking the law for kicks? Which level of bastards are they? What do we believe?

I think some of the pro-hunt comments on here are selling the same trope - anti bloodsports activists are mostly thugs who are in it to cause trouble, they deliberately harm hounds and horses and are aggressive to children and the elderly and will do anything to get their footage.

I'm not doubting anyone's experiences if that's happened to them. It's absolutely unacceptable to happen to anyone.

What I've experienced in my many years of activism is the total opposite. Teachers, nurses, retired professionals, plumbers, social workers, civil servants, a whole host of people from all backgrounds, all walks of life, who are kind and caring and are involved because they truly believe that using an animal for sport - a sport where there's a high chance they'll die, is wrong.

There are drag hunts that are entirely legal and are not sabbed.

There are hunts who are clean boot and have the odd monitor present.

Then there are hunts who use trail hunting as a smokescreen for fox hunting. These have terriermen and terriers for when a fox has gone to ground. They hunt in well known areas for foxes. They fill in badger setts.

There are hunts that feed foxes in artificial earths and then use them as a bagged fox and release them so there's a kill. There are hunts that participate in cubbing - where young hounds are trained to kill. Hunts that shoot the old and sick hounds or ones that have no appetite to kill.

The first hunt I ever attended was horrific - a fox was disembowelled and the huntsman and whip laughed.

So I'm sure there are some passionate sabs that are sick of this happening and that do get shouty. But my god, I've never known any sab to follow support home or leave fox tails on footsteps, or smash windows in, or ram cars, or threaten lone females. I have experienced that from the hunt.

These people are brutal. They're bullies who are used to getting what they want because they have money and connections. Look at the amount of Tory MPs that ride with their hunts, the high ranking police officers and judges.

Hunting is not a sport that all can access - that's a classist comment in itself - how many working class people can afford a horse and all the kit and the subscriptions and cap? Hunting is a tight community that is very white, very money orientated and is a status symbol.

As for thick as fuck sabs, that's pretty appalling and untrue. I've personally got a first class degree 😉

What is daft is thinking citronella will harm hounds - you can bathe in it and you'll just smell fresh. Or that sabs entice hounds onto the road - why would anyone do that, never mind passionate activists who bloody love animals? Who sacrifice their spare time to stop any animal being killed? Or thinking that with the hunts' own top brass having a webinar leaked outing tactics and strategy for hiding what they're doing is going to be forgotten. Or the Kimblewick's own goal of clearly hunting caught on camera.

Those who trail (but don't really) will you state why trails are laid across roads and railway tracks and gardens? Or will you blame sabs again? 🙄 sabs who go from being criminal masterminds to thick as fuck...

Fox hunting is on its way out, ban or no ban. It's cruel, barbaric, and outdated. It's ah emotive subject and I actually think it's great there can be debate from both sides.

Hunting isn't pest control, it's a sport, pure and simple and until hunts are transparent about their trails, their scent source, and stop bringing out terrier men and terriers, I suspect they'll have sabs on hand to do their best to prevent any accidents.

@Thewithesarehere

One of the benefits of hunting with dogs vs hunting with guns is it actually improves the health of the general fox population. Now I have seen all

🤣🤣🤣 load of guff, isn't it!

It's just vile.