To think a short, hard, lockdown is better than a soft one dragging on for months?

[PrincessNutNuts]

Would you rather go hard for a shorter duration? (YANBU)
(Stay at home order. Daily exercise outside, only see your bubble, shop as infrequently as you can, work from home if you can, most things closed, schools and universities closed.)

Or have a softer lockdown for longer? YABU)
Unlimited shopping, schools open, Tier 3 rules, I guess.

The ‘harder lockdown’ brigade miss the point spectacularly.

Numbers were very low when we came out of lockdown in the summer.

The problem is in preventing resurgence. Making people more miserable during the first lockdown wouldn’t have achieved anything.

Thekeating but would less people of died from cv in the first lockdown if it had been stricter ? Genuine question

It would have to be a serious lockdown as we had in March so schools would also have to close and nobody should go to work unless they’re a ‘key worker’ (hate that term). It isn’t a real lockdown if kids are still sitting in small rooms with 30+ others and people like my DH are still in the office.

It’s actually the only way we’ll ever drive infection rates down and it will have to go on for months again.

Baffled by the fact that posters are still running the “lockdowns are pointless because you’re just kicking the can down the road” line.

It was pretty ignorant in September, but now? Do they not read the news at all?

@nosswith exactly, my company could easily make me work from home, but since the first lockdown, where i was furloughed, my life is just normal. We are all in the office, our delivery crews are out on the road delivering a non essential product into peoples homes. They are sometimes in 12 homes a day, for 30 mins a time, then they come back to our office. How we’ve not had an outbreak I don’t know. They won’t stop the logistics side until the government stop saying it’s ok to go in peoples homes for work.

but would less people of died from cv in the first lockdown if it had been stricter ? Genuine question

I doubt in significant numbers.

Much of what the harder lockdown enthusiasts were demanding was stuff like clampdown on ‘excessive’ exercise outside, which is exceptionally low risk to begin with.

Ditto picking up some chocolate or wine while doing the shop.

Neither. Lockdowns are not sustainable.
We had a hard lockdown in March. Schools were shut, women had nervous breakdowns trying to looks after small children and keep their jobs, many people were made redundant, half the people I know are now unemployed (hospitality, the arts) I saw no one, old people were locked into care homes and saw no one, they died and were not given proper funerals. There were no cars on the road for weeks, and those that had to drive for work were stopped often by police.
I know people like to froth about Shelia down the road going to the corner shop 3 times, but actually, as a nation, we did all lock down hard and there was a high percentage of compliance.
The problem is, too many people and families are really hurting now. You can't "close all non essential businesses" without someone becoming homeless.
We need much better and widespread local testing, plus vaccination, particularly of teachers, care workers, nursery workers. supermarket workers, bus drivers, waiters. Let's all get back to work properly and maybe have an extra emergency tax to fund more and better testing and vaccines. Also lets behave sensibly when it comes to masks and distancing as though we are adults who don't need Nanny to tell us what we are allowed to do all the time!

I'm in Liverpool. This city has worked hard to get down to Tier 2 status. I heard yesterday though that people are travelling in from Tier 4 areas to drink here etc and stay in hotels. Very, very selfish, extremely stupid and quite worrying but how can that sort of behaviour ever be policed?

This. Lockdown without schools is pointless.
I do have to agree to a point like the last November lockdown for example shops / hairdressers shut but people still went to work .
I was told I can wfh then asked to come in for a few days and as much as I don't mind and can hardly say no it's not a lockdown is it .
All it's doing is making other people loose their jobs by closing non essential and hospitality.
Wfh I know is not always doable and not everyone likes it but it really should be encouraged that only going to work as a last resort and most offices should allow staff to wfh most days .
I agree I think it's partly lazy from employers that can't be bothered with the remote working or like to micro manage .
I also think the government are giving mixed messages . It was wfh and stay home then it was encouraged that everyone goes back and go out and not to mention half the MP's don't follow the rules . It's half hearted and that's why people don't understand or comply in my opinion anyway .

People mainly complied very well with the first lockdown because it was sold as a short sharp preventative measure and most of us were convinced we'd have dead bodies piling up on the streets.

Thankfully it never got as bad as that, but circumstances have changed and people need a bit of quid pro quo. I'd say we'd have a better chance of getting through things with a full lockdown- including schools - for all of January with the sweetener being that the government guarantees x number of vaccines delivered and adds teachers to the priority list so schools open - come what may - in February.

I'd support that @rookiemere .

@MarshaBradyo

Tier 4 are having the equivalent of a short lock down now aren’t they? Nothing open, no mixing.

How long is short op?

I live near Tier 4.

Schools were open, garden centres were open. And anything that wasn't open in Tier 4 could be visited in my area. Tier 2.

Last week I walked through our little Tier 2 town centre and spotted tons of branded bags from the nearby Tier 4 garden centre all packed into a coffee shop. The week before it was Tier 4 school uniforms. Our pubs suddenly did a roaring trade the week Tier 4 was announced.

@islockdownoveryet

This. Lockdown without schools is pointless. I do have to agree to a point like the last November lockdown for example shops / hairdressers shut but people still went to work . I was told I can wfh then asked to come in for a few days and as much as I don't mind and can hardly say no it's not a lockdown is it . All it's doing is making other people loose their jobs by closing non essential and hospitality. Wfh I know is not always doable and not everyone likes it but it really should be encouraged that only going to work as a last resort and most offices should allow staff to wfh most days . I agree I think it's partly lazy from employers that can't be bothered with the remote working or like to micro manage . I also think the government are giving mixed messages . It was wfh and stay home then it was encouraged that everyone goes back and go out and not to mention half the MP's don't follow the rules . It's half hearted and that's why people don't understand or comply in my opinion anyway .

Agreed. I am in teaching and have a 15 year old son. I want schools to stay open but I don't see how it's doable. During the last 2 lockdowns, schools were still open throughout albeit for a reduced number of children. If some schools close but not others how can teaching staff both work and homeschool their own children? If schools are to remain open (which I reiterate, I want them to do) , then a safer way MUST be found. What is slightly galling is that teaching staff aren't sometimes seemed to be considered as people with families, children, lives of their own but do deserve this consideration too. It almost comes across as schools can remain open because they run themselves or the pupils are taught by robots. No, it's real people. I think no lockdown or shorter, FULL lockdown. It's almost laughable that during lockdown you couldn't meet a friend, go to a non essential shop or see your mum but could travel to work and meet hundreds of different households daily with limited social distancing. Because Covid doesn't like schools you see... No, it has to be all or nothing.

Op I meant right now. There’s a break and everything is shut for two weeks.

Do you want it to be longer than two weeks?

Personally I don’t advocate the short it doesn’t do much so I’ll go for the lower restrictions

Tiers only work if numbers overall are low enough to be controlled through track and trace and/or police presence can be used to keep people in their tiers -which is being tried in Scotland and leads to unfortunate optics.

Our numbers are such that we just need to do an overall lockdown for a defined period of time. Simpler and easier to follow. We know the vaccine is coming and the sooner that is widely rolled out, the easier it is for all businesses to return to normal.

Also give us some hope. What's the tipping point for the vaccine ? Once the most vulnerable groups are done will we be able to mix again ? We know things should get better at some point so sell us a vision for the future, rather than the false mirage of a family Christmas.

Plus hopefully the way through is vaccine deployment as indicated by press today

@MarshaBradyo

Op I meant right now. There’s a break and everything is shut for two weeks.

Do you want it to be longer than two weeks?

Personally I don’t advocate the short it doesn’t do much so I’ll go for the lower restrictions

Well the nationwide super spreader event we held two days ago is going to have some effect I would have thought.

And that Tier 4 garden centre is open right now. I bet it's full of families.

Our local supermarket was heaving earlier with families out getting post- Christmas bargains.

My friend who child minds starts again on Tuesday. As do nurseries. Because everyone goes back to work.

It's hardly "everything shut" for two weeks is it?

Sounds a bit lockdown happy to me op to say we don’t have big restrictions right now in tier 4 so I’ll leave you to it.

I know people want ‘proper lockdowns’ on here but it’s ridiculous

What is needed is more funding for nhs. More harder short term training for specific tasks. Bring back free nursing training. We have lost so many nurses, not to covid but to burn out. We need more health care workers.

Sadly there aren’t going to be more nurses in time to make a difference regarding covid. By the time covid has been vaccinated to a less impactful disease any lessons we could have learnt will be forgotten and I have no doubt the nhs will remain underfunded.

The last cohort of student nurses, etc only started their training 2 months ago. Six months after the start of the pandemic. If the govt were serious about sorting out the major staffing/recruitment crisis they had ample time to scrap tuition fees for the latest batch. They didn’t. Speaks volumes. Don’t listen to what they say, look at what they (don’t) do.

@MarshaBradyo

Sounds a bit lockdown happy to me op to say we don’t have big restrictions right now in tier 4 so I’ll leave you to it.

I know people want ‘proper lockdowns’ on here but it’s ridiculous

Five minutes ago you were claiming everything was shut for two weeks. Make your mind up.

@JacobReesMogadishu this is perhaps a stupid question and I apologise in advance if so. Why would having more nurses impact on the number of cases?
I don't disagree that more nurses are generally a good thing, I'm just wondering how specifically it would change the current circumstances? If it's about administering the vaccine, many non medical professionals can be trained up to do that.

@cushioncovers

Thekeating but would less people of died from cv in the first lockdown if it had been stricter ? Genuine question

Not during the first month of it. They were infected before Lockdown began. The only thing that would have reduced the 30,000 or so deaths in April would have been earlier lockdown.

You do go on op. Just stay home if that’s what you want.

That makes sense, thanks.