To move..

[Dovecote]

DH has a son from his first marriage. I've known him since he was 7. His mother has constantly dripped poison in his ear for years. We have tried everything to maintain a good relationship with him and to support him in every way we can but it's just failed. He has made it clear he doesn't like us and doesn't value us in his life. DH has been offered a job in my home country where we'd have a much bigger support network and where my family live. We have 2 children together who would really benefit from the move. They adore their half brother but the feeling just isn't mutual. DH thinks we can go now as this Christmas DSS doesn't even want to come by to get his presents. I'm still torn. Are we being unreasonable to move?

[quote CakeRequired]@TrustTheGeneGenie

Stay and be there for him. Keep reaching out to him, help him personally with his school work, not throw tutors at him. Even if he keeps saying no, you keep trying, you don't just give up because it's too hard. That's not what parenting is about. You don't run off to another country, you help them. If they walk away now, he's doomed. He'll likely never recover and he'll just be a statistic.[/quote]
Where's his mother in this? If he won't see his dad how do you suggest he personally helps with school work? What if dad isn't able to help? A levels are pretty specific.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

God knows where his mother is, she's not sounding great from this thread either. Her uninvolvement isn't important here, we can't give any help on that really. His father however could go over to see him and help, like he could have gone over with his presents as someone else pointed out. It all seems to be being placed on the kid having to do the running around, and he can't be arsed with it. Why doesn't his dad go round with them and help with coursework? And not knowing the subject isn't a great excuse, nor does the kid really, he's learning it. It doesn't take much to Google and read does it? If I had a kid and they were struggling with a subject, I'd help by learning it with them. If you have to go back a few stages and learn earlier stuff, do that.

Parenting is not easy, it's not meant to be easy. It's challenging, it's hard, it makes you want to tear your hair out in frustration. You can't run off when it's difficult. Or do you think that's an OK option?

A friend of mine had similar situation. They moved to her home country but made sure they rang DS every week but most weeks their calls were ignored, just as they were ignored before they moved.

They continued to send gifts and these would not even be acknowledged.

However, they continued to make offer of paying for tickets to SS to come visit them and eventually he did. Was a turning point.

The calls still get ignored but not ALL the calls. Not all the gifts are acknowledged but the offer for an annual visit is taken up. They do focus solely on this SS during his week visit, everything revolves around him, but as it’s only one week a year, they’re doing it. Been 5 years now so SS so in his 20s

[quote CakeRequired]@TrustTheGeneGenie

God knows where his mother is, she's not sounding great from this thread either. Her uninvolvement isn't important here, we can't give any help on that really. His father however could go over to see him and help, like he could have gone over with his presents as someone else pointed out. It all seems to be being placed on the kid having to do the running around, and he can't be arsed with it. Why doesn't his dad go round with them and help with coursework? And not knowing the subject isn't a great excuse, nor does the kid really, he's learning it. It doesn't take much to Google and read does it? If I had a kid and they were struggling with a subject, I'd help by learning it with them. If you have to go back a few stages and learn earlier stuff, do that.

Parenting is not easy, it's not meant to be easy. It's challenging, it's hard, it makes you want to tear your hair out in frustration. You can't run off when it's difficult. Or do you think that's an OK option?[/quote]
Her lack of involvement is a massive issue here. Do you not think if they had a united front he might have listened? He's got mummy telling him he's fine when he isn't. How helpful do you think that is for dad's relationship?

You can't run off when it's difficult? No. But then I don't see moving away from a 17 year old as running off tbh. They've offered for him to stay whenever, he's old enough to travel alone and, he presumably has a phone or whatever. He is 17. In less than a years time he could easily piss of somewhere himself. To say dad needs to stay for the sake of 6 month's or so is utterly ridiculous.

I would be asking if he wants to come with you for the "life experience" he can still game with all his mates etc.

Come for an extended holiday type thing... some time away from parent alienation and infantilisation sounds like it would really benefit him?

With technology you can be in touch easily and if he is refusing to see you in person then it could be 6 months to 6 years before that changes.

I would be 95% go but I would be talking to DSS that you don't want to go without him and would he come with you for a while?

Move, and invite DSS to come and stay during his school holidays (offer to pay fares, help him apply for a passport).

He's 17, plenty old enough to travel abroad alone.

Her lack of involvement is a massive issue here. Do you not think if they had a united front he might have listened? He's got mummy telling him he's fine when he isn't. How helpful do you think that is for dad's relationship?

His mum being on the same side as them would help, but considering she has been saying shit about them for years to him, how likely is it do you think that is actually going to happen? They are on their own on this one unfortunately, she is going to be of no help.

You can't run off when it's difficult? No. But then I don't see moving away from a 17 year old as running off tbh. They've offered for him to stay whenever, he's old enough to travel alone and, he presumably has a phone or whatever. He is 17. In less than a years time he could easily piss of somewhere himself. To say dad needs to stay for the sake of 6 month's or so is utterly ridiculous.

I think they'd be better staying and getting him to move to their current house. If he won't even do that, he's certainly not going to go to another country. He's just going to feel abandoned by his dad completely, that his mum is right they are all rotten and the new kids are the favourites. Is that right? No but it's how he will see it. Would you purposefully ruin your relationship with your child? That's is most likely what will happen here. Maybe they will be lucky and it will all end up happy, but life isn't usually that kind. He's struggling with the new lifestyle because of covid most likely as well, that isn't going to change any time soon. I wouldn't be surprised if next year is just the same as this year. That will make his depression worse, his eating disorder worse, and this time if they leave, he only has his mum telling him he is fine. He'll end up in hospital most likely because no one is there for him.

Will you be more or less heartbroken if you move? Do you think you might regret it?

I don’t have ah agenda fwiw, like you I have step children and one of my own with DH. I can’t put myself in your shoes, it all sounds very painful. But we live where we do now because DH’s ex moved and we effectively followed as far as we could while still being close enough to our jobs. It’s galling to plan life around the decisions of someone I barely know and don’t think much of, but we moved because we needed to be near DH’s kids and we won’t go further than is doable for regular contact until they’ve finished school/gone to uni/moved out and got jobs etc and we had DD knowing we’d made that commitment. Easy to say I’m sure, but even if something awful happened and they didn’t want to see us we’ve still made that commitment and plan to honour it. DD will probably miss a lot we could otherwise give her but that’s life in a blended family, it’s full of sacrifices.

If you were still seeing DSS regularly, would you move? You say he’s still in touch with you, that paints a different picture to the one I had initially. He hasn’t cut you off completely if he’s texting you. Can you imagine how the conversation would go telling him you’d made the decision to go so far away? Wouldn’t you feel like you’d let his mother and her poison win?

@CakeRequired

Her lack of involvement is a massive issue here. Do you not think if they had a united front he might have listened? He's got mummy telling him he's fine when he isn't. How helpful do you think that is for dad's relationship?

His mum being on the same side as them would help, but considering she has been saying shit about them for years to him, how likely is it do you think that is actually going to happen? They are on their own on this one unfortunately, she is going to be of no help.

You can't run off when it's difficult? No. But then I don't see moving away from a 17 year old as running off tbh. They've offered for him to stay whenever, he's old enough to travel alone and, he presumably has a phone or whatever. He is 17. In less than a years time he could easily piss of somewhere himself. To say dad needs to stay for the sake of 6 month's or so is utterly ridiculous.

I think they'd be better staying and getting him to move to their current house. If he won't even do that, he's certainly not going to go to another country. He's just going to feel abandoned by his dad completely, that his mum is right they are all rotten and the new kids are the favourites. Is that right? No but it's how he will see it. Would you purposefully ruin your relationship with your child? That's is most likely what will happen here. Maybe they will be lucky and it will all end up happy, but life isn't usually that kind. He's struggling with the new lifestyle because of covid most likely as well, that isn't going to change any time soon. I wouldn't be surprised if next year is just the same as this year. That will make his depression worse, his eating disorder worse, and this time if they leave, he only has his mum telling him he is fine. He'll end up in hospital most likely because no one is there for him.

So basically because mums always been an arsehole that's ok but dad can't do anything anymore ever that doesn't include almost adult ds who won't see him? Right.

You've clearly polished your crystal ball, haven't you?

He is 17. There is absolutely 0 point trying to pressure a 17yo into contact. There just isn't. The option is there, the trying to contact is there, the reasutrance is there. They should go.

If he ends up in hospital that is not the dad's fault.

Plenty of kids a bit older than this go around the world on "gap years" by themselves or go abroad to uni.
I don't see why this has to be framed as "abandoning" this kid by so many drama llamas on here.
If he has his own room at the new house and you're both willing to pay for him to have as many visits as he likes, then emotionally it's no different to him living away from his dad in the same country. Giving him the option of a new home in another country might be just the fresh start he needs to pull him out of the rut he's stuck in.

As someone who was IMMENSELY difficult during my their teens years (and pretty awful to my divorced parents and their partners), I can honestly say you wouldn’t recognise me as a person now at all. My dad never gave up or moved away - he’s one of my best friends now. It took time and getting a career and growing up.. now I’m a family person and life is brilliant. Don’t give up on him now.

My dad this to me when I was 16. Honestly wasn't bothered. Got a free holiday a few times a year! And btw nowadays with FaceTime etc the line of communication is always there.

Do what's best for your family, he doesn't wanna spend time with you all, and maybe this will kick him up the but!

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Did i say it was fine for how the mother was acting? No. She's a shit mother, pretty sure I even said that. But just because one parent is shit doesn't give the other one free rein to do the same does it? Otherwise half the mothers on here would abandon their children too like their fathers did.

I never said pressure him either, I said be there. Moving to a different country is not being there for someone. Other people are saying they didn't mind their parents doing this, but they weren't shut off from all of their friends due to a pandemic and likely didn't have depression or an eating disorder either. You add those 3 together, plus one parent walking away while the other one ignores you, do you think you get a happy outcome? Really?

[quote CakeRequired]@TrustTheGeneGenie

Did i say it was fine for how the mother was acting? No. She's a shit mother, pretty sure I even said that. But just because one parent is shit doesn't give the other one free rein to do the same does it? Otherwise half the mothers on here would abandon their children too like their fathers did.

I never said pressure him either, I said be there. Moving to a different country is not being there for someone. Other people are saying they didn't mind their parents doing this, but they weren't shut off from all of their friends due to a pandemic and likely didn't have depression or an eating disorder either. You add those 3 together, plus one parent walking away while the other one ignores you, do you think you get a happy outcome? Really?[/quote]
No but it doesn't mean dad should be 100% taking the blame for the situation because she is denying everything.

You have no idea what "outcome" you'll get because every child is different.

If this is his dad's chance he can't decline it because of the pandemic and his sons lack of contact with friends. He is 17. He can't be forced to have involvement from his dad that he doesn't want. Suffocating a child doesn't often work. His dad cannot help with his eating disorder. I don't know why you think he can? Legally is nowt to do with him.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Not fully blaming the dad either, they are both to blame. But the mother isn't going away to another country is she?

If your parenting way is to just stop bothering and let them come to you, or go off to a different country, do that. I don't agree with it, never will. I think you're going to cause the child more harm than good, and there's plenty of evidence just on these threads of that. Don't expect the child to be happy about it though, they might not be. It's definitely not what I would ever do, so we will have to agree to disagree.

But the mother isn't going away to another country is she?

No but what relevance is that? You can be more helpful and supportive in another country that you can be by being physically present but a total knob end.

If your parenting way is to just stop bothering and let them come to you, or go off to a different country, do that

Why would I do that? It's not me considering it? When have I suggested not bothering? I've not once said that you've just totally made that up?

I would agree to disagree if you were essentially just making shit up?

The relevance is obvious I thought. She has been saying shit about the dad for years now. If his dad goes and leaves him, that just confirms to the child what she has said. She has been 'proven right' in their eyes. He's left, so he's a shit, even though he's been trying to help, they aren't going to see that. They are just going to see him leaving and use that. As soon as they bring up about moving to another country, his mum will be straight in his ear going 'see? Told you he is horrible didn't I? He's leaving you behind, he doesn't love you'.

You've got to be the calmer one in those situations, one has to be at least. See it all the time on here, a single mother has an asshole ex to deal with, he says cruel things about her to the kids, says she's stopping him seeing them etc. They eventually realise he's full of shite, but the mother has to put up with that until them, and sometimes the kids lash out and believe the dad. Does she run away? No. She stays there, remains a constant and eventually they come round, but it's not easy.

Cake is either lost seeing as he/she apparently has no kids and isn't even married or is a troll cutting their teeth. Don't feed it! I do appreciate the feedback from others. DH left home for Uni at 17 and never looked back so I think he has a different view. Even when I was at uni I came home every break etc.

@CakeRequired

The relevance is obvious I thought. She has been saying shit about the dad for years now. If his dad goes and leaves him, that just confirms to the child what she has said. She has been 'proven right' in their eyes. He's left, so he's a shit, even though he's been trying to help, they aren't going to see that. They are just going to see him leaving and use that. As soon as they bring up about moving to another country, his mum will be straight in his ear going 'see? Told you he is horrible didn't I? He's leaving you behind, he doesn't love you'.

You've got to be the calmer one in those situations, one has to be at least. See it all the time on here, a single mother has an asshole ex to deal with, he says cruel things about her to the kids, says she's stopping him seeing them etc. They eventually realise he's full of shite, but the mother has to put up with that until them, and sometimes the kids lash out and believe the dad. Does she run away? No. She stays there, remains a constant and eventually they come round, but it's not easy.

He can never prove her wrong though can he? Why play up to her bollocks? Because that's what he'd be doing. It wouldn't be for the direct benefit of his son.

Being calm shouldn't mean giving up your dreams because your ex is bitter and twisted.

It doesn't always happen that way, you know, and it's much harder for a nrp to "prove wrong" an rp who is a massive nasty bullshitter.

Ime dad cannot win here. He just can't.

@TrustTheGeneGenie because it’s not the mum asking for advice.

What is your son doing? Education? Training? May have missed. How engaged is he? Committed?

How far away is the new town?

What about your DH driving back and booking a hotel for him and son one night a month? That way they have two full days together one a month.

[quote KatieGGGG]@TrustTheGeneGenie because it’s not the mum asking for advice.[/quote]
No it's not but she is playing a huge part in this so not commenting on her behaviour would be bizarre when she is seemingly just as much if not more to blame for this whole situation.

He can never prove her wrong though can he? Why play up to her bollocks? Because that's what he'd be doing. It wouldn't be for the direct benefit of his son.

Being calm shouldn't mean giving up your dreams because your ex is bitter and twisted.

It doesn't always happen that way, you know, and it's much harder for a nrp to "prove wrong" an rp who is a massive nasty bullshitter.

Ime dad cannot win here. He just can't.

Because by leaving, he is playing to her bollocks, she wins. She is 'proven right' like I say, it proves that what she is saying is true, that he's a bad person even when he isn't. It's what 'Disney dads' try to do, act like they are the fun parent and mum is evil and horrible, won't let you have any fun. Proven 'right' when mum says no to something. But it's still bollocks, and the child eventually realises that the no was in their best interests. Dad wasn't.

He can't win at the moment, there is no win here right now. There's only providing support. This problem won't be solved over night, in a year, or with holidays. It needs time and consistency, which you cannot give from a different country.

But what do I know, I'm just a troll apparently. People's opinions don't matter at all unless they are married, didn't know that you became immediately wise once married.

@CakeRequired

He can never prove her wrong though can he? Why play up to her bollocks? Because that's what he'd be doing. It wouldn't be for the direct benefit of his son.

Being calm shouldn't mean giving up your dreams because your ex is bitter and twisted.

It doesn't always happen that way, you know, and it's much harder for a nrp to "prove wrong" an rp who is a massive nasty bullshitter.

Ime dad cannot win here. He just can't.

Because by leaving, he is playing to her bollocks, she wins. She is 'proven right' like I say, it proves that what she is saying is true, that he's a bad person even when he isn't. It's what 'Disney dads' try to do, act like they are the fun parent and mum is evil and horrible, won't let you have any fun. Proven 'right' when mum says no to something. But it's still bollocks, and the child eventually realises that the no was in their best interests. Dad wasn't.

He can't win at the moment, there is no win here right now. There's only providing support. This problem won't be solved over night, in a year, or with holidays. It needs time and consistency, which you cannot give from a different country.

But what do I know, I'm just a troll apparently. People's opinions don't matter at all unless they are married, didn't know that you became immediately wise once married.

You clearly haven't been in this situation, whereas some of us have. There is no point trying to stop her being proved right. It does not matter. Because you know that it's bollocks. There is no point trying to convince a child it is not bollocks and I personally find the best way to proceed is to ignore that it's happening and be yourself. Live your authentic life. If your ex wife wasn't a bitch would you move to Australia? Yes? Then go.

You absolutely can give time and consistency from another country and many people make it work. This isn't a 4 year old boy. He is 17. And yes he will likely eventually realise that his mum is a knob head, but his dad doing some kind of pick me dance, will not make that happen sooner.

He's not giving up on him, or abandoning him, he's moving away. This child is old enough to visit that country alone. He's old enough to contact his dad and be contacted independently of his mother. He clearly doesn't want that close in your face contact from his dad and believe me it won't help forcing it on him. What teenager wants that?

This being painted as abandonment is frankly ridiculous.

@TrustTheGeneGenie and I think the exact same of any person who could do that. Not highly.