To think upcoming male generations will be less presumptuous/misogynistic?

[Circumlocutious]

I mean, surely it makes sense? The cocklodger is now such a stock character on MN that he’s easily identified within a few sentences. We all know and loathe him. The male stereotype who ‘helps’ at home, does ‘childcare’ for an hour on Saturdays and expects endless praise, who can hold down a complex job but can’t coordinate basic domestic chores...is he on his way out? Are we going to see far far more gender equality in 20 years?

These male cliches that we all know and rail against, will surely decrease massively once this current generation of MumsNetters (and conscientious fathers) are done raising their sons? (I say MNetters, because if their DHs are useless then they’ll be hardly be transmitting positive values to their offspring).

Or maybe there are other factors at play, far more than parental upbringing. Enlighten me.

Of course, they'll be less racist, sexist, homophobic, wasteful, we improve with every generation. It's the only thing that maintains any shadow of faith in our species I have.

I worry that most women don't find MN until it's too late, and they've already found themselves child shackled to such a bloke.

However, we can perhaps recognise the red flags in time to teach them to our daughters.

No, lots of young women I know put up with crap that I would never have even considered for a second in the 90s when I was their age.

Online porn is warping a whole generation, I don't feel good about that. Also men that claim to be feminists are some of the worst our there.

As long as women are on average physically smaller than men and as long as females are the sex that give birth, there will be men who take advantage, because they can. Add on female socialisation to be kind etc and toxicity is definitely always going to be a thing. It's why all the second wave feminist actions are still so vital today: women's aid, maternity pay, women in workplace, discrimination laws.

I hope so.
With sexual assault I think the #Metoo had an impact on young men, that and questionable consent court cases we have to keep pushing the message.
DP was only reminding me how great he was today for deep cleaning with me.
I agreed he is good but only because the bar is so low my Dsis's husbands do nothing when it comes to domestic chores.
I still do far more than DP and don't point things out expecting praise.
There is a long road ahead.

YABU.

I think misogyny is getting worse and worse. The 1980s were the high water mark for equality. It's been downhill since then.

Modern men are ruined by porn.

@Namechange2020lalala

Online porn is warping a whole generation, I don't feel good about that. Also men that claim to be feminists are some of the worst our there.

True, I forgot about porn. In my view, negatively matched with teen girls’ desire for social validation (taken on a whole new dimension with social media). Different perhaps to questions of housework and domesticity.

Er no. Daily I see on here women accepting shit from their DPs that my DM didn't accept from my Dad in the 1970s.

Nope. I hope they will, but I encounter misogynistic twerps at work all the time. Almost all of them younger than me. The worst of the lot are the super-woke, 'I know my rights', fresh out of uni lads.

I shared a house with two men - one a mature student doing a PhD in his 30s, one a library Porter/stand up comedian. The first one is in a relationship with a woman who is so accomplished yet he is a boy- an absolute child who is manipulative, unfaithful and a negger. The second guy went to Thailand a couple of times, then moved there permanently and married a Thai woman after a couple of months (I’m still hoping she turns out to be a ladyboy).

Both men shocked the life out of me with their sexist attitudes- hidden, but there nonetheless. The last guy I shared with proudly announced he would take the bins out as though he was doing me a favour in a HOUSE SHARE!!!!! And that was largely his contribution.

I fear that things are much worse as we have created a society where things are evaluated so subjectively now that guys like this think all they have to do is talk their way out of doing things, there is no sense that they still have to be done by someone.

I dunno. I thought I was bringing my boys up to see women as equals and yet today I found out that my 12 year old honestly thought that only men were doctors and only women were nurses. Despite having seen female doctors before.

@BobbinThreadbare123. Yes- I noticed that.

I think they have got better at avoiding things. And I am truly shocked at what I see some women putting up with.

@Bunchup

YABU.

I think misogyny is getting worse and worse. The 1980s were the high water mark for equality. It's been downhill since then.

Modern men are ruined by porn.

I agree it’s getting worse not better.

No. It’s generally getting worse. Society is on a retrograde, regressive path.

This is a half thought out idea so I may ramble a bit. A lot of men are only bothered by what other men think. So until the vast majority of men think that childcare/cleaning/mental load are a 50/50 deal and you'd be 'looked down' on if you weren't doing it I think there'll be limited change. Same with paying maintenance. You aren't seen a a pariah for not paying. In all probability, other men will be feeding the narrative: the money will be spent on wine/nails/going out, why should you give money when you've no say in how it's spent etc....
The prevalence of porn has created some unrealistic expectations .

It does seem like it's getting worse.

There are an awful lot of women on here putting up with shit. I'm very thankful I've found a good one!

Everything suggests to me we’re going backwards. Everything.

It's absolutely getting worse. Society is pretending that womens issues are either fixed, or don't exist at all. Any time it's pointed out that women's rights/sexism is getting horrifically out of hand, women are laughed at or told to shut up. Or called 'Karens'. The 'be kind' movement has made things worse as well, reinforcing the ideals that women were put on this earth to be nice, and anytime we're not 'kind and accepting', we're simply not womaning right. Especially if we have a contrary or negative view of anything.

I think this makes me feel like my head is exploding. On the one hand I see so much progress, I meet amazing young people who seem to have it all down pat and also many, may young women who see no need for feminism because 'it's all sorted'.

And then I see the pornification of our society, teen Vogue doing a 'how to' guide on anal for young girls, my own DS telling me Jonny Depp is the good guy... and I despair.

Did you see that study (sorry no link) about Australian men’s attitude to women - things such as slapping or choking a woman during sex I think? The worst responses were youngest age group.

Meanwhile, elsewhere on the internet, women aren’t allowed to name themselves in female health campaigns and lesbians are made to feel guilty for refusing to date people with penises.

@BrumBoo

Spot on.

Another one who thinks it's getting worse unfortunately.
It's positive that women no longer feel the need to wear high heels, but everything else about beauty ideals seems to be taken to the extreme; e.g. young women getting lip-fillers, Botox, bum plants etc.

Porn culture. Rough sex defence. Woman being relabelled as a 'feeling.' Men demanding women's spaces.
Yes, the teen porn guide to anal with no mention of clitoris. Amount of women getting killed by partners and ex partners.

Hmm yeah l blame 50 shades of grey for some of this.

I can only assume this fascination young people seem to have with choking is from porn. Made me think of Grace Millane, the young woman murdered in NZ. Part of the defence as she had asked a previous partner to choke her. why it as allowed to be evidence

I think relationships between the sexes have changed a lot in my lifetime. But I see from subsequent posts I'm still thinking of the housework/ domesticity arena.