To think upcoming male generations will be less presumptuous/misogynistic?

[Circumlocutious]

I mean, surely it makes sense? The cocklodger is now such a stock character on MN that he’s easily identified within a few sentences. We all know and loathe him. The male stereotype who ‘helps’ at home, does ‘childcare’ for an hour on Saturdays and expects endless praise, who can hold down a complex job but can’t coordinate basic domestic chores...is he on his way out? Are we going to see far far more gender equality in 20 years?

These male cliches that we all know and rail against, will surely decrease massively once this current generation of MumsNetters (and conscientious fathers) are done raising their sons? (I say MNetters, because if their DHs are useless then they’ll be hardly be transmitting positive values to their offspring).

Or maybe there are other factors at play, far more than parental upbringing. Enlighten me.

I worked in an all boys secondary school and the misogyny was so bad. It made me weep for the future. Porn does have a lot to do with this generations misogyny. They see nothing wrong with calling girls frigid just because they wouldn't kiss them/sleep with them/have anal sex etc...... Sex talk was getting more and more extreme. I'm not naive, we all talked and thought about sex as teens but the extremes these boys talked about shocked me. They honestly thought girls owed them sex like porn films or they were freaks and "lesbians" any girl with public hair was also a freak. They have this warped view of the female figure from porn.

I think it's getting worse. Social media has meant my sexist racist BIL has an outlet to meet similar minded men and feel especially justified in those views.

Sadly, I don't so. Many women on MN still excuse men's shitty behaviour, as we see on MN daily. They'll be raising the next generation.

@ramblingsonthego

I worked in an all boys secondary school and the misogyny was so bad. It made me weep for the future. Porn does have a lot to do with this generations misogyny. They see nothing wrong with calling girls frigid just because they wouldn't kiss them/sleep with them/have anal sex etc...... Sex talk was getting more and more extreme. I'm not naive, we all talked and thought about sex as teens but the extremes these boys talked about shocked me. They honestly thought girls owed them sex like porn films or they were freaks and "lesbians" any girl with public hair was also a freak. They have this warped view of the female figure from porn.

That’s so depressing I wonder how girls respond to this...more obliging or willing to push back?

@Namechange2020lalala

Online porn is warping a whole generation, I don't feel good about that. Also men that claim to be feminists are some of the worst our there.

This.

The reason we're seeing more abuse/slackers described on Mumsnet and the reason we're now actually naming them e.g. cocklodger ... is that there are actually MORE of them out there. The entitlement of men to our sexual, domestic and financial services - even outside of a subsisting, committed relationships has skyrocketed. This is a result of porn, music, movies, tv and a sick pop culture in general.

This really isnt a good time to be a woman and historians will study it alongside the 50s as such.

My only hope is that the disorder of the pandemic will open doors to women (i.e. flex work) and allow increased financial independence and also that the upcoming Domestic Abuse Bill will be a gamechanger for abused women - those still being domestically abused by an ex partner they no longer live with, for whom the police are able to do nothing.

TLDR: I have hope not for men, but for women.

@Brainwave89 agreed - there's a veneer of politeness and some lip service to it all but underneath is a very different story. The internet provides nice little echo chambers for incels etc.

I’ve raised two young men on my own, with a zero tolerance approach to being dicked around by men. Without wishing to toot my own horn, they’ve turned out awesome.

I overheard DS (18) arguing with another lad on the phone the other week. He was saying: “Some bint?? Is that how you talk about women? I’m not surprised she dumped you”

I don't know. My young adult sons have a lot of respect for women and their abilities, they don't think there's anything women can do, for example, they have a lot of female friends and are more than capable and willing domestically but I do notice that their female friends are the ones who do all the social organising.

I'm afraid, I do think women automatically slip into this caring/organising role, even when it's not demanded by the men concerned.

Oh FGS, they don't think there's anything women can't do

Sexism has massively increased in the last thirty years.

The standard of services for women has decreased - maternity services and women’s refuges. Maternity is far less woman focussed and DV services have so little money.

Men don’t seem to be contributing more to childcare, housework or household organisation but they have also declined in their ability to do traditionally masculine DIY tasks.

They are also more disrespectful and sexually demanding in terms of dating, as well as all the problems of revenge porn and similar.

I feel sorry for younger women.

@Namechange2020lalala

Online porn is warping a whole generation, I don't feel good about that. Also men that claim to be feminists are some of the worst our there.

This. It’s such a worry for me. I have two young dds and and it scares me to death. The literature that schools are giving out for sex education is shocking. Discussing fisting, rimming and group sex. It’s awful. School Boys expecting girls to perform like porn stars because of the easy access to porn.

So no I don’t thing misogyny is getting better. It’s getting worse because girls and boys are being brain washed it to believing their are no boundaries and anything goes.

The worst thing about today’s culture is that there is a drive to push that females and males are now equal, but the pretence of that takes the truth that misogyny is alive and well of the discussion table.

Men can be now naked in women’s changing rooms that would have never happened ten years ago.

Men don’t seem to be contributing more to childcare, housework or household organisation but they have also declined in their ability to do traditionally masculine DIY tasks

Absolutely.

Not if Twitter is anything to go by. It seems to contain a lot of youngish misogynist beardy twerps (they all seem to have the same beard and same smug expression) who all want to close down women's rights in the name of their wokeness. (They all look a bit like this guy, generated from that website This Person Does Not Exist Dot Com.)

@womanaf

Everything suggests to me we’re going backwards. Everything.

Me too. The stories about young men’s sexual expectations based on porn make my blood run cold.

I dunno.. ds(18) lives in a mixed dorm with about 50/50 male to female. They all do equal chores etc, without gender coming into it. However, he still comes out with things that make me raise my eyebrows (he’s another one who supported Johnny Depp). Or as a law student pointing out that men still get a raw deal in the family courts, without recognising that many men don’t want equal custody. It’s different, and I do think attitudes are changing, but there’s perhaps a new set of problems.

Do any of you feel that more weight is being put on you to carry the social infrastructure? I can’t quite explain it but sometimes it feels to me that women are holding up the very landscape of society for boys to run around in - like they are playing football in my social and personal space, such have we been diminished. I am not in UK so it is difficult to gauge it compared to growing up there but as someone said, I don’t feel men are doing the heavy lifting any more and we are doing both the heavy and the light.

It’s getting worse.

Men are getting away with vicious rapes and murders, claiming it was a sex game gone wrong. Boys believe that choking is a standard part of sex. Understanding of consent is so low that people are having to make videos comparing it to a cup of tea. Prosecutions for rape are at an all time low. Conviction rates are just as low. God help you if you get attacked by anyone famous; even if you aren’t named on social media, you’ll be vilified and accused of lying for fame and fortune. Teen Vogue are publishing articles about anal sex. If a male is asked by a woman to leave her alone, huge numbers are reacting with aggression up to and including physical and sexual assault. If a man does something dreadful to a woman, it’s always asked what the woman did to provoke him. Or his mother is being blamed for not bringing him up properly. Have a look at the site ‘Bye Felipe’ where there are hundreds of screenshots of men on dating sites calling women names and wishing rape and death on them because they haven’t replied to their messages immediately. Have a look at the membership numbers for Reddit Incel groups and note that feminist groups on the site have been disbanded. The breaking down of women’s rights are frightening.

I am so glad I don’t have daughters and I’m terrified for the girls who are growing up with this.