To think upcoming male generations will be less presumptuous/misogynistic?

[Circumlocutious]

I mean, surely it makes sense? The cocklodger is now such a stock character on MN that he’s easily identified within a few sentences. We all know and loathe him. The male stereotype who ‘helps’ at home, does ‘childcare’ for an hour on Saturdays and expects endless praise, who can hold down a complex job but can’t coordinate basic domestic chores...is he on his way out? Are we going to see far far more gender equality in 20 years?

These male cliches that we all know and rail against, will surely decrease massively once this current generation of MumsNetters (and conscientious fathers) are done raising their sons? (I say MNetters, because if their DHs are useless then they’ll be hardly be transmitting positive values to their offspring).

Or maybe there are other factors at play, far more than parental upbringing. Enlighten me.

@Circumlocutious

I mean, surely it makes sense? The cocklodger is now such a stock character on MN that he’s easily identified within a few sentences. We all know and loathe him. The male stereotype who ‘helps’ at home, does ‘childcare’ for an hour on Saturdays and expects endless praise, who can hold down a complex job but can’t coordinate basic domestic chores...is he on his way out? Are we going to see far far more gender equality in 20 years?

These male cliches that we all know and rail against, will surely decrease massively once this current generation of MumsNetters (and conscientious fathers) are done raising their sons? (I say MNetters, because if their DHs are useless then they’ll be hardly be transmitting positive values to their offspring).

Or maybe there are other factors at play, far more than parental upbringing. Enlighten me.

I don't know, depends on how many enabled young boys/teenagers are out there being mollycoddled and treated like princes that can do no wrong by their parents (note parents m, NOT mothers) - cocklodgers don't just appear as adults, they are made as children....

I just can't see many young people I know taking on parenthood tbh.

Society in general is getting worse.
People say it is more news access I don't think so the level violence out there from young people male/female is wild.
I say that born breed in the inner city the attacks nowadays are brutal and usually include a knife.
I still have hope many young people are moving on the right path.

@Bunchup

YABU.

I think misogyny is getting worse and worse. The 1980s were the high water mark for equality. It's been downhill since then.

Modern men are ruined by porn.

This.

Things really aren't getting better now. I have no faith that they will in the future.

Sorry, some of us old 'uns thought that years ago. I'm constantly amazed at how many MNetters put up with so much crap.
I've done my bit and raised a lovely bloke, his wife thanks me

A lot of men are only bothered by what other men think. So until the vast majority of men think that childcare/cleaning/mental load are a 50/50 deal and you'd be 'looked down' on if you weren't doing it I think there'll be limited change.

Hmm, interesting. Could be quite a bit of truth on that.

I'm so glad that I am old enough to remember when men were good at sex. I am of the pre-online porn generation. They are shit at it now.

Don’t hold your breath, OP. Misogyny is as old as the hills- it’ll take millennia for it to die out, and living in a patriarchy it is unlikely to do so.

It just changes its forms- but it rears its head everywhere, in each generation. It’s not going away.

My observation is that things are regressing not improving!

My dds generation the women are far too concerned with their physical appearance due to social media, the men are lazy, entitled, sexist, racist Neanderthals!

My ex wasn't superman or anything but in terms of how we were before split he pulled his weight, treated me with respect in and out the home inc in the bedroom (none of this "play a porn star" crap) and played fair on finances.

Dd has run through a fair few boyfriends because thankfully, somehow I did get through to her not to accept being treated like shit!

But her peers are putting up with all sorts of nonsense - cocklodgery, excessive weed use, laziness, bad personal hygiene...

She was once called a stuck up cow for turning down a date with a lad who had worn the same jeans for a week without washing and admitted hating brushing his teeth!

Same with paying maintenance. You aren't seen a a pariah for not paying. In all probability, other men will be feeding the narrative: the money will be spent on wine/nails/going out, why should you give money when you've no say in how it's spent etc....

On this I think better legislation and ENFORCEMENT would make a huge difference.

Legislation and govt campaigns CAN make certain acts socially unacceptable - look at how attitudes to smoking in public places, drink driving and wearing a seatbelt have changed since that happened - we need similar for child maintenance though of course while we have a PM where we don't even KNOW how many kids he has little chance of that!

@BrumBoo I agree "be kind" and "Karen" crap everywhere!

No!

Learn to say no and not feel guilty doing so and if I as a middle aged woman want to complain about poor service or treatment from ANYONE I shouldn't be dismissed or silenced when I do

cocklodgers don't just appear as adults, they are made as children....

Absolutely!

Many of dds generation ime we're not expected or in some cases even ALLOWED to do basic household chores until they were at least 18! Result - lazy entitled young adults at worst, incapable lacking in confidence on basics like cooking at best. I consider it a parents failure if they hit 18 and are incapable of doing the basics of running a household (barring certain medical issues of course) from basic cooking and cleaning to managing a budget.

I despair I really do at how dds generation have been almost completely failed

It's got worse especially with online dating. The way some men act on there is appalling.

I really really hope so
There is a chance

I’m looking at kids and teenagers
Not my generation

It's taken me ten years but DH has improved immeasurably,especially since having kids.

He has realised if he wants a full time SAHM/housewife, I can't be doing that and working a well paid job besides, and has realised family finances depend on him sharing the load at home so I can work effectively.

His mates are similar. I know lots of men who did shared parental leave too. Maybe a driving factor is that in my circle the women are all high earning professionals. We are not dependent on their husbands financially so we don't put up with any shite.

Oh and DS is growing up seeing parents split the load at home & treat each other with respect.

I have a feeling they may unfortunately be worse. Increasing levels of porn use, and the resurgence of fixed gender roles being enforced by the ‘woke’ are setting back women’s rights and reinforcing outdated stereotypes.

I would not be so certain. We have a misogynist in Downing Street as an example.

If I was to judge society by everything I read on MN's I would say it's getting worse. However, MN is a microcosm of society, so I don't.

Having spent the last 16 years in the STEM industry and STEM education, I have seen the number of women entering and rising in these fields increase tenfold, and that's incredibly encouraging.

When I speak to my younger, single colleagues, they are far more aware and vocal about issues around sexism and misogyny and are seeking equal partnerships, not unequal ones.

Among my own circle, the women are all higher earners and the husbands pull their weight with household chores and child rearing.

I'm pretty hopeful actually.

Wrong thread have reported to get removed!

I don’t think so. I got a lot of stick from the parents of my DS1’s friends for some of the things I was strict on. Mums and dads are still perpetuating the “boys will be boys” bullshit.

When they were 15 a girl was slut-shamed for sending a top less photo to her boyfriend (thankfully without her face). I was called ridiculous by another Mum because I felt the school massively under-reacted to it (and my DS was grounded for being part of a group who laughed at the girl - if he’d been one of the ones passing the photo round he’d still be bloody grounded now!)

Porn is giving teens very warped ideas about sex and a lot of parents are seriously squeamish about talking to their kids about it and dispelling some of the shite they think is accurate.

And there is still no societal pressure on men to pay for their children. It’s still acceptable to financially abandon your kids if your ex has a job/car/gets her haircut more than once a year/you pretend she’s not letting you see your child. Mothers, fathers, siblings, mates and new partners all accept it without batting and eyelid or making a single critical comment.

there is still no societal pressure on men to pay for their children. It’s still acceptable to financially abandon your kids if your ex has a job/car/gets her haircut more than once a year/you pretend she’s not letting you see your child.

That's balls. I know loads of blokes who pay for their kids and do so well.

I know one bloke who resisted and he's now a social pariah, his own mother doesn't talk to him any more.

My eldest worries me. He has to do the basic looking after himself type stuff for himself because I just won't do it for him anymore, but his ideas of and thoughts about women / attitude stink.
He's massively influenced by what he reads on the internet. He has me in his ear (and hates me for it), but at the moment I can't see any sign of him growing up and taking any of it on board. He absolutely thinks he's right. I wouldn't want to share my life with that.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

there is still no societal pressure on men to pay for their children. It’s still acceptable to financially abandon your kids if your ex has a job/car/gets her haircut more than once a year/you pretend she’s not letting you see your child.

That's balls. I know loads of blokes who pay for their kids and do so well.

I know one bloke who resisted and he's now a social pariah, his own mother doesn't talk to him any more.

It's not remotely balls. You only have to look at the vast number of women on here who get no maintenance at all for the children, and at CMS's own ridiculously pathetic performance figures.

Nope. Disagree.
You only have to read threads on MN where parents are defending male on female violence amongst children to realise that nothing has really changed.
Pornography and social media are a huge part of the problem. The lack of parental regulation around phone usage amongst young children means they have access to porn from a really young age.

I have to say I am more pessimistic than most on here appear to be. At a surface level, misogyny, homophobia and racism are no longer acceptable. However, the internet and platforms such as snapchat provide a breeding ground for all kinds of very poor male behaviour. Last year we had the scandal at Warwick University which was based around a snapchat group and at St Andrews similar events occurred. I think all we are seeing is the shape of prejudice changing, but the internet and new social media platforms will if anything the velocity will be worse.