To ask about JK Rowling - can someone tell me what happened?

[christmaspigeon]

Just that really. I like her. I like how she gives so much for charity and how she put Trump in his place, but I know people's views on her have changed. Something to do with trans comments?? Can someone explain (in really simple language!) what happened? Thank you!

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Such a pain for you that they made these threads compulsory, BellaDonna.

Such a pain that people who disagree with J K Rowling can't physically post in this thread too!

I know. Why don't you tell us what happened with JKR, Bella and Skyliner?

@Quaagars

They are a group of potential attackers. Because they are men. They have male patterns of offending. They have grown up with male privilege. Women know, instinctively to recognise and be wary of men

How far are you taking that
I mean, I know don't go around being scared of men at every turn.
They're just people.
Like I am.
So we should all be scared of trans people because men?

If you are walking alone late at night, do you avoid certain areas? Maybe have your keys at the ready? Would you avoid getting very drunk in certain situations? Do you avoid being alone in public in certain situations? Maybe even just subconsciously?

Would you be perfectly happy sharing a public toilet, just you and one bloke you didn't know? You wouldnt feel any discomfort at all in that situation?

Because I don't think of myself as 'scared of men' but I know that there are certain situations where I act in a certain way, because as a woman, I know the score.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I know. Why don't you tell us what happened with JKR, Bella and Skyliner?

Like OP , I'm sure you already know.

Just to clarify I meant sex is not protected characteristic as a hate crime but trans is.
I.e if J K Rowling has actually said anything transphobic at all she could be prosecuted, the fact she hasn't tells you all you need to know.
On the other hand all the suck my dick till you choke comments are perfectly legal.

She is an "uppity" woman who refuses to stay in the Kitchen. Imagine - a woman having opinions and wanting to protect women's rights 😱😱

Still waiting for @Gardeniaofdelights to come back with evidence of jkr's 'series of transphobic comments'

@Kumquatsquash

She stood up for women.

Err no, she doesn't stand for me.

Sorry @IMNOTSHOUTING she stood up for women's rights and services then.
She's a nice person though so she'd probably stand up for you once you realise your rights have been taken away.
Note that she stood up for the right for women prisoners not to be raped by Karen White. She even thinks criminals are people too.
What a monster.

@Clymene

Still waiting for *@Gardeniaofdelights* to come back with evidence of jkr's 'series of transphobic comments'

Oh we’ll be ages, ive Christmas eve to get on with so I’ll probably miss it

Like i said I dont agree with everything people tell me is transphobic, and thats fine. But it is interesting to hear as it helps me know where some people are coming from

And sometimes i can see exactly what that person means

@TheBuffster

Sorry *@IMNOTSHOUTING* she stood up for women's rights and services then. She's a nice person though so she'd probably stand up for you once you realise your rights have been taken away. Note that she stood up for the right for women prisoners not to be raped by Karen White. She even thinks criminals are people too. What a monster.

She didn't actually stand for women's right she stood for the removal of trans rights. I have no isse with a trans woman using my bathroom so she doesn't stand for me or my rights. She may or may not be a nice person but to imagine she's some kind of hero is obviously incorrect because she's removing the rights from a group of people who are far more likely to be victims of assault and bullying than woman.

Obviously it's become a political issue with certain feminists who are very anti trans. Lots of these feminists are really nasty people who have become so entrenched in a political view point they're happy to see trans women treated awfully because they see them as the enemy. NO idea if JK Rowling fits into this model. As far as I'm concerned her books are OK and she was quite lucky to get the success she has. I agree with quite a lot of what she says but it certainly isn't anything special.

She didn't actually stand for women's right she stood for the removal of trans rights. I have no isse with a trans woman using my bathroom so she doesn't stand for me or my rights.

How incredibly selfish of you @IMNOTSHOUTING

You're fine with it so happy to throw other more vulnerable woman and girls under a bus

You don't mind what sex people j your bathroom are because you come from a position if privilege. The vulnerable in society deserve to be protected. Do you think transwomen should be in female prisons?

Males are more likely to be assaulted because male violence is a problem. The solution is not to invade a female's safe space. Black males are even more likely to be assaulted which is why black Tw Are more likely to face assault. Sex workers are more likely to be assaulted and a larger proportion of TW than women find themselves in this role.

Should bith sexes work together against violence against black males and non black males? Yes
Should we all help people who may find themselves trapped in sex work? Yes

But not by removing women's rights.

IMNOTSHOUTING

Toilets aren't really a very good example.

If you were in hospital, would you be happy to be on a mixed sex ward. Do you care about the sex of the patient in the next bay when you are being asked personal questions by a nurse?

If your mother is elderly, and getting assistance from visiting carers, don't you think she will care who bathes and cleans her? Would you be happy to get a bed bath from a male nurse? Would she? Would most women?

@PotholeParadies

IMNOTSHOUTING

Toilets aren't really a very good example.

If you were in hospital, would you be happy to be on a mixed sex ward. Do you care about the sex of the patient in the next bay when you are being asked personal questions by a nurse?

If your mother is elderly, and getting assistance from visiting carers, don't you think she will care who bathes and cleans her? Would you be happy to get a bed bath from a male nurse? Would she? Would most women?

I have been in all these situations and there is no way on earth I will accept a mixed-sex ward in any of those situations. No way that should be allowed. It’s my right, I pay taxes for it and I am fully entitled to feel secure and safe the way I need to be when I am vulnerable.

Which trans rights was it that she wanted removed?

(And for the love of god can we not make it about loos, because it’s definitely not beyond the wit of humanity to organise men’s, unisex and women’s facilities so that everyone is catered for).

Which rights did she advocate specifically should be withdrawn? If this thread is an opportunity for the usual suspects and the same old stuff, then why not turn it around and use it to educate us on exactly what she said that merited the death threats, and the pictures of penises all over her Twitter?

Trans women already have the same rights as everyone else. That's why there's hate crime legislation in place for them.
What your asking for is extra rights. That's called privilege. You're showing a hell of a lot of it.
But you're happy for women to lose female spaces. I wonder what that could possibly mean for Muslim women and rape victims. You sure as hell haven't.

I think the thing that epitomises this was the recent amendment in Scotland to enshrine the right of female rape victims to request a female medical examiner.

Some people said that was anti-trans.

If being patient-centred about a rape victim is anti-trans, then that's not a hard decision for me.

You're"

"Removing the rights"? What rights are these? Self-id was never law.

And highly doubtful that they are far more likely to be assaulted than women. If they are at risk from other men, it's not women's problem to absorb. What we do know is that they are just as likely as the next man to assault a woman.

For me, the way I saw this issue changed dramatically when I realised what is meant nowadays by a "trans woman". It is not "Hayley from Corrie", or at least not often. It is quite likely to be a big, burly heterosexual male who has made no physical changes, and who does not suffer from dysphoria. Once I learnt more about the actual picture of what's happening on the ground, instead of a hypothetical "perfectly nice woman who happened to have the misfortune of being born into a man's body", my sympathy and patience with this cause evaporated. I'm not alone.

If you are walking alone late at night, do you avoid certain areas? Maybe have your keys at the ready? Would you avoid getting very drunk in certain situations? Do you avoid being alone in public in certain situations? Maybe even just subconsciously? Would you be perfectly happy sharing a public toilet, just you and one bloke you didn't know? You wouldnt feel any discomfort at all in that situation?

Well, that answered my question
I'll take it you think it should be a yes then.
Still not going to be irtrationally scared of trans people just like I'm not going to be irrationally scared of men.

She didn't actually stand for women's right she stood for the removal of trans rights. I have no isse with a trans woman using my bathroom so she doesn't stand for me or my rights.

Well that's great for you. But what about other women who do have an issue with sharing vulnerable spaces with males simply on the basis that those males 'identify as women'?

Or do they not matter? Male feelings come first yah?

Do you believe that a woman who asks for a female to carry out an intimate procedure should have the right to an actual biological female rather than a male who identifies as a woman?

So according to your logic rape victims should suck it up as women have no right to be wary of men.
Unbelievable.

The lazy insult of “you’re anti trans” is also inaccurate because my feminism includes transmen. They are the ones who may need contraception, or abortion, or maternity rights, they may suffer from period poverty or employment discrimination if they’re read as female (risk of maternity leave being needed), and sorting out the issues caused to young women by the ubiquity of violent and degrading porn would definitely help some of them. That they probably don’t want it to isn’t really isn’t something I spend too much time worrying about- it’s there for them whether they want it or not.

So no, feminism isn’t intrinsically anti trans if it doesn’t centre transwomen, or males in general. The issues I raise above aren’t of relevance to transwomen.