To ask about JK Rowling - can someone tell me what happened?

[christmaspigeon]

Just that really. I like her. I like how she gives so much for charity and how she put Trump in his place, but I know people's views on her have changed. Something to do with trans comments?? Can someone explain (in really simple language!) what happened? Thank you!

@MorganKitten

But I’m not going to get drawn into it anymore - I’ve seen enough to know she’s transphobic as have many people who have been hurt by her actions and comments.

No, you just don't like the fact that she's sees biological sex as being a greater priority than gender beliefs. You don't agree, and that's fine but beliefs are just that and no one is owed to be believed without tangible fact to back them up, or when their personal beliefs impact others, including already oppressed groups (like women).

Yes I read her essay.
I believe she just won a prize for it.
Can you pick out some quotes from that article that prove she's transphobic?
Im not seeing it.
Unless believing in biological sex is transphobic?
Is it?
Is believing that women have a need and a right to organise against our oppression which is based on our biological sex transphobic?

@queenofknives

Apologies, I can't get into that "popbuzz" article as it just keeps flashing up ads and then disappearing.

But from your quote - you do realise that LGB alliance are a campaign group for gay rights, not a hate group? And Helen Joyce is a journalist? I suppose if you just say X is transphobic, then you can claim anyone who supports/talks to X is also transphobic. But unfortunately that will only work if you're not lying about X in the first place.

Campaign groups who have known to post transphobic things. And a member of the lgbtq community I do get why you’d be confused but I know how she made my trans friends feel. And that is more important.

@Blubellsarebells

Yes I read her essay. I believe she just won a prize for it. Can you pick out some quotes from that article that prove she's transphobic? Im not seeing it. Unless believing in biological sex is transphobic? Is it? Is believing that women have a need and a right to organise against our oppression which is based on our biological sex transphobic?

Please read the article about that I’ve posted and you will see why.

@MorganKitten Read above

Erm... is it an invisible quote? I see you mention a character in a novel and a quote from someone who thinks JK is transphobic. WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? Just tell us! Why are you talking around it and dredging up other people's accusations when you could just simply quote the transphobia?

If you can't quote the transphobic comments, you have to realise that most people are not going to believe that they exist. Why do you believe in her transphobia without evidence? Why do you dismiss what she actually says (that she supports trans people)? Why do you think what she says she believes is less accurate than what someone else claims (without evidence) that she believes?

@Quaagars

You are a 14 year old girl walking along a deserted road when a car driver stops, and asks you to come over to give directions. You want to be helpful so you do Do you treat male and female drivers exactly the same?

Yes I do - and have, as in have given directions to both and have kept a distance, it's just common sense not to go right up to the car and keep a distance whether it's male or female in it asking.
So yes, I do treat them the same.

How lucky you have lived a sheltered life. Sorry that most of the rest of us haven’t.

Apart from the fact she has a close trans friendship you mean?

What's the fact she's got a close trans friendship got to do with anything?!
"I've got a trans mate"
Oh, OK, as you were, that makes it all OK then

@MorganKitten you keep saying 'transphobic things' and yet you're still to give any actual direct quotes on this. How can we see if its actual hate speech, or just something that TRAs disagree with? Because disagreement doesn't equate 'phobia'.

I do get why you’d be confused but I know how she made my trans friends feel. And that is more important.

I am not confused @MorganKitten

Why is what your trans friends feel more important than facts, evidence, discussion of women's rights, children's safeguarding? For that matter, why is what your trans friends feel more important than what my women friends feel?

@BrumBoo

You don’t seem to let anyone else have an opinion.

I feel she is transphobic and given reasons why. I support all women. I don’t just see a vagina as what makes a women, funny how when men are sexist it’s because of how they see women... yet some women are the same.

Like I said I will not get in to a drawn out he said she said. I made several points, I will support all women, trans or biological.
And I’m not going to keep talking to brick walls.

I did read the article.
It didn't have any quotes from jkr that I would talk to be transphobic.
Which is why im asking you for the direct quotes of anything shes said thats transphobic.
I think I will be waiting a while.
Because there are none.
Unless believing sex is real is transphobic.
Is it?

I am far behind for Christmas and haven’t got time yet to read this thread fully. But I will.

I just want to say OP. Please don’t stop talking about Joanne Rowling. Keep on talking about her. And thank you for posting this thread. Everytime a thread like this appears outside of Feminist Chat, posters who regularly go onto Feminist Chat to shame the women discussing upholding women’s and children’s rights because they view it as anti trans see that the wider population do not believe their view either. They keep saying ‘you who fight for these rights to be able to define yourself are not in touch with most women’, and it gets disproved soundly everytime a thread is posted here outside the other board.

So. Thank you. I hope that you have had your question answered and probably in far more depth than you anticipated. But if you have read the many fine posts here supporting Joanne Rowling, you will certainly be up to date with what has been happening and perhaps you were not aware.

@queenofknives

I do get why you’d be confused but I know how she made my trans friends feel. And that is more important.

I am not confused @MorganKitten

Why is what your trans friends feel more important than facts, evidence, discussion of women's rights, children's safeguarding? For that matter, why is what your trans friends feel more important than what my women friends feel?

Did I say they are more important- no

I say all women trans, non bino, biological are the same. Because I have an open mind and don’t just see a vagina as what makes a women.

And I’m not going to keep debating.

I read her essay thanks. My reading extends beyond popbuzz celebrity trivia thanks. My critical thinking skills are in tact so I don't need it explaining to me. You on the other hand have yet to produce a primary source of transphobia.

Some transphobic actions I've done today:
Not correct son grabbing willy declaring Dicky dicky.
Assumed sons pronouns.
Not given all money to trans charities.
Said sex is real.
Told husband I need privacy on the loo.
Not asked son if wants to transition as playing with dolly.

100 hell Mary's for me!

What does make a woman then?
A working definition is really vital if we are going to be able to fight and over come our oppression.
What do all these women have in common?
In what ways are the oppressions faced by transwomen the same as those faces by women?

To all those who are trying to draw me in to a debate.

I’m not going to keep going backwards and forwards. I support all women as stated several times. But there will be those that say I’m walking away as I can’t provide you the details you need, even though I’ve posted them several times now. I just won’t argue when I can’t see the point - I don’t judge people until I see their behaviour.
I’m walking away from this topic as there’s more important things to do today.

I don’t agree with transphobic behaviour.

And I’m going to enjoy my Christmas, I hope you all do.

I say all women trans, non bino, biological are the same. Because I have an open mind and don’t just see a vagina as what makes a women.

Interesting. I dont 'see a vagina' when I look at a woman either, but I do know that having one makes them a woman. What do you believe makes one a woman, @MorganKitten? What definition would you give 'woman' outside of biology?

@MorganKitten
Since you ‘feel’ she is transphobic, it’s all fine then.

How do you support women if you cant define what one is?

[quote MorganKitten]@BrumBoo

You don’t seem to let anyone else have an opinion.

I feel she is transphobic and given reasons why. I support all women. I don’t just see a vagina as what makes a women, funny how when men are sexist it’s because of how they see women... yet some women are the same.

Like I said I will not get in to a drawn out he said she said. I made several points, I will support all women, trans or biological.
And I’m not going to keep talking to brick walls.[/quote]
How you feel doesn't make anything a fact.

Why do you and those who come out with the same stuff always turn tail and flee? Just give a straight answer to a straight question.

@MorganKitten

To all those who are trying to draw me in to a debate.

I’m not going to keep going backwards and forwards. I support all women as stated several times. But there will be those that say I’m walking away as I can’t provide you the details you need, even though I’ve posted them several times now. I just won’t argue when I can’t see the point - I don’t judge people until I see their behaviour.
I’m walking away from this topic as there’s more important things to do today.

I don’t agree with transphobic behaviour.

And I’m going to enjoy my Christmas, I hope you all do.

I hear ya Merry Christmas

And I’m not going to keep debating.

Well you haven't been debating at all. You've been making claims then refusing to back them up with any evidence whatsoever. I do not know why you think anything you've linked or claimed here should be accepted as proof of JKR's transphobia - as you can see, most people would not consider any of this to be sufficient.

Also, to be clear, I haven't asked you to debate or discuss. I have asked you, repeatedly, to quote JK's transphobic comments. Which you cannot do, because they don't exist.

The fact that you believe/feel that JKR is transphobic, despite the clear evidence to the contrary, is a little bit worrying. You are fully entitled to that belief but it isn't based in anything except your feelings and the feelings of your friends. It has got nothing to do with JK Rowling, women's rights, trans rights or anything else. It's just entirely in your head.

Why do you and those who come out with the same stuff always turn tail and flee?

Turn tail and flee?
You realise they're still on the thread and haven't gone anywhere, right?
Or are you just pretending that's what "not talking to brick walls" means?

It seems as though it’s ok to throw around and label women with the (often career damaging) term transphobic, with abandon but women have to be extremely careful in naming others, as they see.

Some great posts on this thread. It should never be transphobic to state that women exist as a sex class or that we are all concerned about so many children believing they are trans as they struggle with puberty, let alone speaking about the judicial review that has confirmed that children are being treated with unethical experimental medicine.

JKR is reflecting the views of the majority of women who are quietly concerned about what is happening to children and the wholesale removal of women's rights and language. And as has been demonstrated repeatedly, nobody can ever quote a transphobic statement from JKR. It's all inference and false allegations.

Let's keep speaking out, talking to each other and insisting that women's rights, sport, language, privacy and dignity and the safety of our children will not be removed - by anyone. No matter how much they try to insist.