AIBU re cancelling Christmas dinner as brother now in tier 4

[Wingingitmumia]

Invited to DM for Christmas dinner. Brother (no children) goes into tier 4, his MIL cancels, so our DM feels sorry for him and invites him to dinner.
AIBU to cancel going to DM?

Far too little real information, and far too much anxiety as a result.

Johnson's Administration is a walking disaster.

YANBU

He has a girlfriend who he lives with.

He isn't alone, so I wouldn't have any qualms about saying no.

It's not just that there isn't a loophole that would allow this, its that from what you say there are no extenuating circumstances to even justify trying to find a loophole.

If he lives with his girlfriend then why would anyone feel sorry for him?

He has someone who he (I assume as they live together) loves to spend the day with.

They can spend a lovely quiet Christmas at home as a couple.
There are two adults who between them can prepare a meal and arrange things to fill their time.

I’ve never understood why grown adults lots with children of their own must go home to parents every year (often meaning one set of parents don’t get to see the family p) and not because they feel it’s important to make sure their older families have company but because it seems inconceivable they would be old enough or mature enough to “do” a Christmas themselves! They can have multiple children a mortgage and a career and seem perfectly responsible but can’t have Christmas at home, it’s all poor John or Jane I’ve invited him/her (plus partner and kids) here for Christmas otherwise they would have to spend it alone at home like that’s a bad thing!

Cancel

Cancel

@Yokey

I feel sorry for you mum having to choose. I know it's illegal so I get your point, but I honestly don't think I'd listen to a law that banned me from seeing my son.

Even if then you wouldn't be seeing your daughter?

@Yokey

I feel sorry for you mum having to choose. I know it's illegal so I get your point, but I honestly don't think I'd listen to a law that banned me from seeing my son.

I’m in Tier 4, my son is not allowed to visit. I’m desperate to see them, last saw him in Feb. But, this virus has to be contained. If everyone just ignores it, we are not going to see each other for a long time (if at all).

Does your Mum fully understand that inviting your brother is illegal, but that it IS legal for you and your family to see her on Xmas day as long as you and she are not in tier 4?

@purpledaisies
His mum doesn’t have to choose. The choice is already made. No one from a tier 4 area is allowed to mix on Christmas Day. The rules also say you can’t leave a tier 4 area except for a permitted reason (which this isn’t)

Of course she has a choice. Covid and its associated restrictions have robbed us of many things, but free will isn't one of them. We almost always have a choice about what rules, guidelines and laws we'll follow

@Nanny0gg
Even if then you wouldn't be seeing your daughter?

That's my point: I feel for her having to choose.

@TheHumanSatsuma
I’m in Tier 4, my son is not allowed to visit. I’m desperate to see them, last saw him in Feb. But, this virus has to be contained. If everyone just ignores it, we are not going to see each other for a long time (if at all)

Sounds like you agree with the restrictions and are willing to abide by them. Perfectly valid choice. Others won't agree for themselves.

I’ll be seen as overreacting for cancelling, but I’m just so uncomfortable with it all.

Would your family think you were overreacting if you decided not to commit tax fraud, or beat someone up, or shoplift?

Also, this is not about just breaking the law, or about your family, it is about the risk of you taking Covid from your tier 4 brother back to your lower tier area.

@CouldBeOuting
I’m not allowed to see my daughter! I’m listening to the law

Again, your choice. Perhaps you agree with the government making it illegal to see your nearest and dearest. I find it utterly astonishing, personally. They can tell me not to eat out, not to congregate with friends, not to shop for non essentials. Tell me not to see my children? No. I'll make up my own mind about that based on the risks for my situation and based on whom I'm likely to come into contact with.

I make no judgements against those who see it differently.

I do wish people would wake up and understand how serious this virus is,

In Italy they are now piling up bodies again.

Here, in the UK, one of my family was working on the provision of temporary mortuaries a few months back- basically, refrigerated lorries in hospital car parks- and meeting the NHS staff over the organisation of this.

There seems to be an element of the population who simply don't 'get it' - and their behaviour means that a lot of people will get it [Covid].

[quote Yokey]@CouldBeOuting
I’m not allowed to see my daughter! I’m listening to the law

Again, your choice. Perhaps you agree with the government making it illegal to see your nearest and dearest. I find it utterly astonishing, personally. They can tell me not to eat out, not to congregate with friends, not to shop for non essentials. Tell me not to see my children? No. I'll make up my own mind about that based on the risks for my situation and based on whom I'm likely to come into contact with.

I make no judgements against those who see it differently.[/quote]
So I do hope you still feel like that when you see bodies piled up that can't be contained in hospital mortuaries, and accept that your behaviour has contributed to the death of loved ones.

Or that the beds are full and people can't have their cancer treatments.

You are incredibly selfish. It's why we are where we are now because people like you make their own 'risk assessments'.

I'll make up my own mind about that based on the risks for my situation

What makes you think you have the scientific, medical, economic and statistical expertise to assess those risks?

@JinglingHellsBells

Let's pretend that's not hyperbole. In what way am I going to contribute to the bodies piling up? You don't know the answer because you don't know if I even leave the house. You know nothing of my circumstances or of those I would spend Christmas with. Nor do you know if I have plenty of Christmases in my future. Look to your own situation and leave me to mine. Or, if you enjoy the anger and frustration to be found in your judgements of others, have at it. I don't care what you think of me.

Your DM is wrong to have invited someone from a tier 4 area with whom she is not in a support bubble.
Under the circumstances I would cancel.

[quote Yokey]@CouldBeOuting
I’m not allowed to see my daughter! I’m listening to the law

Again, your choice. Perhaps you agree with the government making it illegal to see your nearest and dearest. I find it utterly astonishing, personally. They can tell me not to eat out, not to congregate with friends, not to shop for non essentials. Tell me not to see my children? No. I'll make up my own mind about that based on the risks for my situation and based on whom I'm likely to come into contact with.

I make no judgements against those who see it differently.[/quote]
But as we can't trust everyone to make up their own minds sensibly and take notice of risks (as shown in many threads on here) I do have a problem with people doing their own thing.

I have no idea how sound your judgement actually is (tbf, not very, apparently)

What makes you think you have the scientific, medical, economic and statistical expertise to assess those risks?

I have a good deal of common sense. Seeing as though you've taken an interest, allow me to say I'm not actually in tier 4, so can mix on Christmas day. Therefore people, save your ire, I'll be abiding by the holy rules.

But my point was to feel sympathy for a mother who would like to see two of her children Christmas day, and a remark about how incredulous I am that the government are telling people they cannot see their closest loved ones. I know, that in itself makes many froth at the mouth, but it is how I feel.

Would I, who doesn't have to leave the house before Chistmas, be at any risk of spreading Covid if I met with someone else over Christmas who has also been isolating (provided the isolation period was long enough?) No. And I don't need any economic, medical etc qualifications to tell me that. Those with such qualifications have already ascertained it. So if I were in tier 4, I'd make my own decisions based on my circumstances.

Most people don't see all their family on Christmas Day anyway. Assuming no other extenuating circumstances, this doesn't seem that unusual or hard.

In many parts of the country its still possible to meet outside on any day, and even in Tier 4 you can meet one other person outside.

I tend to assume that most people have something going on in their lives that, combined with the restrictions, will make this Christmas particularly hard. However, using common sense, I think its best not to look for difficulties where they don't exist.

Would I, who doesn't have to leave the house before Chistmas, be at any risk of spreading Covid if I met with someone else over Christmas who has also been isolating (provided the isolation period was long enough?)

They’ve only just found a new strain. They can’t be 100% sure about things like length of isolation required, or modes of transmission. That is why the advice is so cautious. My point is that the experts barely understand the risks so there is no chance of the average layperson being equipped to make a decision. And I say this from bitter experience because my husband is a statistician, we and our preschooler son all got negative Covid tests last week and have not left the house since. But we are not prepared to risk going ahead with our planned trip to see his parents. None of us would be able to relax so not really worth it.

[quote Yokey]@JinglingHellsBells

Let's pretend that's not hyperbole. In what way am I going to contribute to the bodies piling up? You don't know the answer because you don't know if I even leave the house. You know nothing of my circumstances or of those I would spend Christmas with. Nor do you know if I have plenty of Christmases in my future. Look to your own situation and leave me to mine. Or, if you enjoy the anger and frustration to be found in your judgements of others, have at it. I don't care what you think of me.[/quote]
I can assuer you that nothing I wrote was hyperbole.

You must be living under a rock if you think it is.

A family member who works in local government is overseeing refrigeration facilities for when the hospital morgues are full.

I am sorry for you actually that you are so ignorant.

You are simply not capable to assessing risk 100%.

I heard from someone yesterday that c couple they know who see no one and who has been shielding for 8 months have caught Covid. The only way was through delivered food. So you don't have to leave the house. They didn't.

Likewise, whoever you are seeing may have picked up the virus somewhere.

I will not only look to my situation. Because the virus is spread through people. What they do affects me and my family.

You are being very silly if you think you will not be judged for posting here that you can assess your own risk and do what you choose.

I certainly do not enjoy anger but your attempts to justify your own behaviour are pathetic and show ignorance and contempt.

Nor do you know if I have plenty of Christmases in my future.

None of us do.

And even less so now people are breaking the rules.

If you are terminally ill you ought to say so instead of winding people up and then- in another post- say you will abide by the 'holy rules'.