Jodie Turner-Smith as Anne Boleyn

[Bitchysideisouttoplay]

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9071763/Director-TV-drama-Anne-Boleyn-says-best-person-role.html#article-9071763
Not and AIBU really but what does everyone think if this?
Personally I think if you are making a historical drama/film etc surely you should cast a person as close in looks to the historical figure.
Before anyone says I'm.being racist I'm not I had massive issues with the casting in the Tudors due to Johnathan Rhys Meyers being cast as Henry, he is short, not ginger and really does not look anything like Henry in portraits 🙄🙄

I do love reading threads like this to see how pathetic the general public really are. who cares?

Bjt I don't want this thread to divert from the TV! Sorry!

I was just thinking that if enough people ask netflix about movies and series with originally black main characters (history, folklore) they can make it, but then I remembered that the quality of stuff they are churning out is quite shit lately and it would just be a shame of ruined tales and acting

@2020iscancelled

Oh Christ I’ve just read back some of this thread...

Do people really still not understand why reverse racism just isn’t a thing?

Why can’t Reese Witherspoon play Rosa Parks???

Fuck me no wonder this world is in the shit.

Gonna go boil my head to rid myself of this utter tripe.

Lovely little rant there hun. Shame you have no argument as to why a black actress can play a WHITE woman, but a white actress can't play a black woman. Typical double standards from the 'woke.'

@Gardeniaofdelights

Instead of making comments like this, could people perhaps try not being so bloody stupid instead?

When you insult people, you've lost the argument dear...

You can’t cast a white person to play Rosa Parks or Nelson Mandela because those people’s stories are inextricably bound up with their race. The fact that they were black is absolutely integral to the things they achieved and the reasons we know and care about them. The same is not true of Anne Boleyn. Her story has nothing to do with her race.

It's completely irrelevant that Anne Boleyn's 'story' is nothing to do with her race.

Another lovely rant though, aimed at people who disagree a black actress should be playing a white woman. Not much actual common sense in what you're saying though. Just hypocrisy and bullshit.

As a few people have said, the level of hypocrisy from some uber-woke, sickly PC people, is utterly breathtaking.

Their mantra is 'if you're white, you don't get to complain, and you're probably racist.'

Love it that virtually 4 out of 5 people agree with the OP that a black actress playing a white woman is preposterous and offensive.

Despite all the little snarky disparaging comments from the 'woke' on here, MOST people think it's bloody stupid for a black actress to play a white woman. And that's because it IS!

@OwlBeThere

White people have been cast in roles that should have been people of colour forever. Jesus for one. Cant say I care much.

Jesus was Jewish so possibly olive skinned and brown eyed?

@fatherliamdeliverance

Race isn't irrelevant to the part of Anne Boleyn. The fact that she was a member of the white majority and ruling class, therefore probably no attention was paid to her race does not nullify it. The point is that if she was black, she would have likely had a very different experience due to the attitudes of the times. Even now, unfortunately, it seems like at least part of Meghan Markle's reception was due to her race.

Not saying there have been no black or mixed race British royals (Queen Charlotte, MM, Catherine of Aragon's retinue) whose stories might make an interesting programme, but Anne Boleyn wasn't one of them.

The difference between TV/ film historical dramas and theatre is that in theatre, a huge amount of suspension of disbelief is already required, hence it is not as important what the actors look like, characters can be cast colour blind more. However in a series that is meant to be realistic (even if details are not accurate), to do so either ignores race, which I don't think is a useful direction to head in, or revises history.

Queen Charlotte wasn't black though.

That's what makes some of this rather cringe, the apparent eagerness to make history more PC in that way.

You now see any reference to a moor cast as a person of black African-descent, which isn't particularly accurate. Or Cleopatra, who was ethnically Greek, is inevitably cast as a black woman.

I have n problem with either of those kinds of roles going to any race really, I think it's possible to make a lot of things work - it's the fact that they've now been relegated to "black" roles totally apart from what is historically accurate that seems wrongheaded. And part of this weird desire to - I don't really even know what people think they are doing when they try and do this. It reminds me of high school when a teacher tried to tell us that Aristotle got his ideas from the books in the library of Alexandria, which was of course full of books by Africans. Who is that supposed to reflect well on, even if it wasn't a crazy idea on many levels?

I don't recall people making this point about Hamilton. I guess the problem is not enough historical stories are told about people from ethnic minoritie backgrounds.

Contemporary stories could be performed with actors from all backgrounds but they aren't usually. I remember when Denzel Washington was cast alongside Julia Roberts in a Grisham story people complained that is wasn't true to the novel.

I think this is why black writers need to be championed who are writing stories about black people. Its not enough to just put a black person in the role of a white person, we need to hear the voices from a black perspective.

Theatre and later on film and television have always been about about telling stories. This isn't a historical record or a documentary, Jodie Turner-Smith is telling Ann Boleyn's story and I'm sure she'll do a great job telling it, because she's a fantastic actress.

Gosh. I wouldn't like to bump into @lisalee333 in a dark alley. Anger issues much???

Why re post an article with racist undertones and probably even more racist comments underneath ?
Just WHY 😱😱😱

Well I think we know why don’t we

Not read the full thread yet but...why not?
She's an actor giving an interpretation of Anne Boleyn. From that point if view it shouldn't matter what colour her skin is.

If they were making a documentary then yeah a white actress playing a white queen is understandable

Can't lose any sleep about casting a black actress to play a white woman in a drama. Personally I will be interested to see her performance and interpretation of Anne.

@fatherliamdeliverance

Race isn't irrelevant to the part of Anne Boleyn. The fact that she was a member of the white majority and ruling class, therefore probably no attention was paid to her race does not nullify it. The point is that if she was black, she would have likely had a very different experience due to the attitudes of the times. Even now, unfortunately, it seems like at least part of Meghan Markle's reception was due to her race.

Not saying there have been no black or mixed race British royals (Queen Charlotte, MM, Catherine of Aragon's retinue) whose stories might make an interesting programme, but Anne Boleyn wasn't one of them.

The difference between TV/ film historical dramas and theatre is that in theatre, a huge amount of suspension of disbelief is already required, hence it is not as important what the actors look like, characters can be cast colour blind more. However in a series that is meant to be realistic (even if details are not accurate), to do so either ignores race, which I don't think is a useful direction to head in, or revises history.

"The new series will go against the traditional style of a period drama by showcasing the story as a psychological thriller examining the final months of the Tudor Queen's life from her perspective."

I really don't think this series is intending to be realistic or accurate... they are getting themselves a lot of attention though and provoking some interesting discussion. Personally, I don't think we should be seeing tv or film as inherently more realistic - it is just as fictionalized as theatre we just seem to have been conditioned to think it's more realistic which is not necessarily a good thing.

[quote SchrodingersImmigrant]@raceless, I am not one, but I fully support their want for it. It's weird that after all that time asking they haven't got it. I think everyone with specific topics could and should have their section, especially if they kept asking for it. Whether it's black, Asian or Eastern European.[/quote]
I agree but I didn't realise there's been a big campaign for it. Think I've only seen one thread and that's off the back of BMN (I could be wrong).

Yet, I've seen and heard of many times MN was asked for a black topic before they FINALLY gave in. Been years, I heard. The rise of the BLM movement and other issues also may have had something to do with it (I could be wrong on this too).

Not that I'm saying it has to be years before everyone gets what they need - It shouldn't, after all, there's such a thing as pacesetters and those who come after them.

However, asking ONLY when another is being talked about, when you wouldn't normally ask and ESPECIALLY when the ask is referencing others as though what they got was easily and preferentially handed to them is that 'whataboutery' some people find annoying.

It may not be the case here but it comes across as such.

Let's make separate threads upon threads upon threads and campaign for what we need without saying..."but but you gave these people this. What about me?". Let's just state why we want it and get it on our own merits. Let's wear MN down as others did. Who's first?

My mistake about Queen Charlotte, apologies, I must've read something inaccurate at some point and remembered it- I'm no historian to be honest!

It's a gimmick, and dumb as fuck.

I'd love to watch a series about piracy like a PP suggested.

Grace O'Malley would be a terrific person to build a series around.

What about a series based on the new Orleans voodoo queen Marie laveau? Now that would be an amazing black role.

Ching shih the Chinese female pirate

I would LOVE an epic colourful series based on Scheherazade.

All these would obviously have a BAME supporting cast too.

There are so many great stories out there rather than "oh we've done Pride and Prejudice again but with an amazing twist: Elizabeth is black!!"

Even series like the new Bridgerton... For fucks sake I am so bored of these teetering behind lace hankies and court intrigue and "witty banter" manor romance stories can we see something different please?

@fatherliamdeliverance

My mistake about Queen Charlotte, apologies, I must've read something inaccurate at some point and remembered it- I'm no historian to be honest!

It was all over the media a while ago that she was "really" black. Based on some rather dodgy ancestry research.

But I think that is a big part of why people are reactive about things like blind-casting. It doesn't seem to be honest about it's motives, they see it as being in the same vein as this sort of "research" about Charlotte.

If it was really about the artistic element, people might have personal preferences about blind casting, or historical accuracy, but it wouldn't be a moral question. But it's not, it seems to be caught up in all kinds of identity politics stuff which people distrust.

Whatever happened with the production a few years ago of The Number One Lady's Detective Agency?

It only had one series and was canceled, but I really enjoyed it.

I find a lot of the series that have focused on "black" stories seem to be fundamentally stories about race, which gets tedious in it's own way. I really liked that TNOLDA was not like that.

I don't have a problem with a black person being cast to play a white historical character. It's called "acting". There was a non-white actress in the role of Guinevere in Merlin, and she was absolutely fine.

I agree that it would also be nice to see more historical drama about the non-white experience in this country but since at the moment that is not usually the stuff that gets made, the next best thing is letting go of resemblance as a major factor and letting the quality of the acting fill the gap.

I find a lot of the series that have focused on "black" stories seem to be fundamentally stories about race, which gets tedious in it's own way.

Indeed.

I love it, “best actor for the role” how utterly refreshing, looking forward to watching it.

I’m not sure Guinevere was a historical person was she?

It's nkt so long ago I was talking about this with my DH (I think the Ariel issue time...) and told him taht I would love like a war drama from the battle of Tanganyika lake. I read a book when I was young about it, can't remember the name, and it was from point of the soldiers on the boats. It really stuck with me for some reason. I would absolutely watch if they made it from the locals' view. There must have been many heroic, sad and interesting moments which could bring in the viewers.
And that wouldn't have to be all about race as @ChestnutStuffing is right.

This casting happened in order to provoke a reaction. And it worked - it's been all over the news, social media and sparked discussions on forums such a MN.

If they had hired a white brunette from London, no one would give a toss - it would be yet another period drama with average ratings.

When this airs the ratings will be high, the papers will be talking about it and many people would never have heard of this programme will watch it.

As for my opinion, I think historical dramas should cast actors who resemble the figure they're portraying. If they don't it just makes the production seem cheap and IMO. I thought the same about Jonathan Rhys Meyers in The Tudors (too good looking), Mark Rylance in Wolf Hall (too short and gentle looking), And Charlotte Hope in the Spanish Princess (she is too thin to play Catherine of Aragon).