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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Jodie Turner-Smith as Anne Boleyn

386 replies

Bitchysideisouttoplay · 20/12/2020 11:34

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9071763/Director-TV-drama-Anne-Boleyn-says-best-person-role.html#article-9071763
Not and AIBU really but what does everyone think if this?
Personally I think if you are making a historical drama/film etc surely you should cast a person as close in looks to the historical figure.
Before anyone says I'm.being racist I'm not I had massive issues with the casting in the Tudors due to Johnathan Rhys Meyers being cast as Henry, he is short, not ginger and really does not look anything like Henry in portraits 🙄🙄

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 20/12/2020 19:02

You now see any reference to a moor cast as a person of black African-descent, which isn't particularly accurate. Or Cleopatra, who was ethnically Greek, is inevitably cast as a black woman.

It's worth pointing out that it's a bit silly to try to draw hard lines around this stuff in the first place. Humans don't have races. Paler skin, blonde or ginger hair, hazel, then blue, then green eyes all occurred by mutation in one or a few individuals long before all these 'races' everyone thinks exist. Humans populations have mixed for our entire history- these 'races' are actually culture and language groupings.

So (for example) Morgan Freeman is probably a little dark for your average Moor (a vague term anyway) but it's not ridiculous casting. Gal Gadot is fine as Cleopatra but there is nothing to say she mightn't have darker skin. There is no inherent reason Jesus couldn't have had blue eyes and in art all over the world he's depicted in the image of the people making the art.

I don't like the example in the OP (or the likes of the BBC's Merlin) because it's only a sign of shitty production values and tokenism but better that than we go back to the idea that most roles have to be a particular ethnicity.

Where colour-blind casting is really important is in the vast majority of roles where skin colour is irrelevant to the character.

Holothane · 20/12/2020 19:13

I love history stuff but Ann Boleyn has been done to death I won’t be watching sorry but casting wrong I’ll be shot down I know.

terrywynne · 20/12/2020 19:20

@whatToDoHerre

This casting happened in order to provoke a reaction. And it worked - it's been all over the news, social media and sparked discussions on forums such a MN.

If they had hired a white brunette from London, no one would give a toss - it would be yet another period drama with average ratings.

When this airs the ratings will be high, the papers will be talking about it and many people would never have heard of this programme will watch it.

As for my opinion, I think historical dramas should cast actors who resemble the figure they're portraying. If they don't it just makes the production seem cheap and IMO. I thought the same about Jonathan Rhys Meyers in The Tudors (too good looking), Mark Rylance in Wolf Hall (too short and gentle looking), And Charlotte Hope in the Spanish Princess (she is too thin to play Catherine of Aragon).

Undoubtedly they knew it would get them attention. I actually quite like that it has provoked us to debate our attitudes to historical inaccuracy.

Age, height, weight, hair/eye colour, parentage, date and cause of death, being a traitor v not being a traitor. These are all defining elements of people's appearance or character yet I can think of examples for all of those where a film/drama has got us wrong despite us knowing what the person looked like, when they died, what they did. And yes, some individuals will grumble as you and others have done over appearance, and there will be some articles/blogs about the inaccuracies but it most people shrug and go 'Well it's a film/tv series not a documentary'. So why is this case different? Is it worse for an inaccuracy to be about race than any other defining feature of an individual's life? (Excluding stories where there is no story if you take race out)

trixiebelden77 · 20/12/2020 19:35

Goodness it must really bother you, and your fellow Daily Mail readers, when so many dramas over the years have completely ignored reality and been cast as though British society was always 100% white. Given your non-racist concern for historical accuracy.

You must have posted so often over the decades on this.

Of course you’d be interested and thrilled to see entire productions focusing on non-white communities......that’s definitely true.

whatToDoHerre · 20/12/2020 19:44

why is this case different? Is it worse for an inaccuracy to be about race than any other defining feature of an individual's life? (Excluding stories where there is no story if you take race out)

I think the case could be different because Anne Boleyn is something of an icon. She has fan clubs all over the world, which is quite strange considering she's been dead nearly 500 years. She is one of the most famous figures In English history, so it's natural this has sparked a lot of debate. If this documentary was about say, Anne of Denmark, people may not care so much.

liverbird10 · 20/12/2020 20:08

Why does anyone give a merry flying fuck?

I played Sandy in Grease on stage despite being of Asian descent. Confused

TheChristmasPrincess · 20/12/2020 20:12

One of Anne’s mottos was “Aisi sera groigne qui groigne”

Which translates to “Let them grumble; that is how it is going to be”

Seems quite apt for this thread 😆

SchrodingersImmigrant · 20/12/2020 20:13

Sandy is made up character.
Like Rick from Walking dead for example. Can be any skin, any accent.

It's not just about skin. I would raise an eyebrow if Anne Boelyn suddenly had for example an accent from central/eastern europe. I wouldn't if that accent was on a fictional character like Doctor Who. If that makes sense.

woodhill · 20/12/2020 20:18

@ChestnutStuffing

Whatever happened with the production a few years ago of The Number One Lady's Detective Agency?

It only had one series and was canceled, but I really enjoyed it.

I find a lot of the series that have focused on "black" stories seem to be fundamentally stories about race, which gets tedious in it's own way. I really liked that TNOLDA was not like that.

I love reading the books and think it would be good to have another series
MrsWarleggan · 20/12/2020 20:20

Anne Boleyn is my historical hero. I love that woman. She's my 1st pick on the old dinner party dead or alive list. I'm not sure with the casting, however I will watch it and will judge on based on her performance. She might be a cracking Anne, she's got to go some to beat Claire Foy though.

"Vivat Boleyns!"

DonkeyMcFluff · 20/12/2020 20:36

I don’t find it reasonable for people to complain about cultural appropriation when a white actor is cast in the role of a non-white person, but then overlook it when a black actor is cast in the role of a white person. It’s either wrong to cast a role with an actor of a different race or it isn’t.

Viviennemary · 20/12/2020 20:38

Sounds like a good motto for this government.

LisaLee333 · 20/12/2020 23:27

@whatToDoHerre

This casting happened in order to provoke a reaction. And it worked - it's been all over the news, social media and sparked discussions on forums such a MN.

If they had hired a white brunette from London, no one would give a toss - it would be yet another period drama with average ratings.

When this airs the ratings will be high, the papers will be talking about it and many people would never have heard of this programme will watch it.

As for my opinion, I think historical dramas should cast actors who resemble the figure they're portraying. If they don't it just makes the production seem cheap and IMO. I thought the same about Jonathan Rhys Meyers in The Tudors (too good looking), Mark Rylance in Wolf Hall (too short and gentle looking), And Charlotte Hope in the Spanish Princess (she is too thin to play Catherine of Aragon).

Well I certainly won't be bloody well watching this politically correct piece of woke bullshit. The yoof at the BBC who decided 'wot a radical ideeya to have a person of colour as Anne Boleyn' are probably out of breath right now, from the amount of time they must have spent blowing smoke up each others arses.

Pathetic, attention seeking bollocks, and I will NOT be watching it, and many many others won't either, because it's so hilariously pathetic, that it's actually embarrassing...

LisaLee333 · 20/12/2020 23:29

@trixiebelden77

Goodness it must really bother you, and your fellow Daily Mail readers,

BINGO! I have a line!

You will be calling people thick gammon, and saying they must have voted for Brexit next!

GO ON. Give me the full house!

IamTomHanks · 21/12/2020 07:10

When Harrison Ford is cast to play Nelson Mandela would your answer be the same?

It's hard to envision a dramatization loosely based around the history of apartheid, which this new Tudor drama will undoubtedly be, or one where race could not possibly be a factor in the story telling, which again, race probably isn't a big part in this new Tudor dramatization, but if this was the case, then there should be no issue with Harrison Ford playing Nelson Mandela.

Looks at "The Great" if you want a "historical" drama that is color blind. There is no way Orlov was Indian, but who the fuck cares cause the actors perfect.

Elfinghecking · 21/12/2020 07:17

It’s a drama, made up scenarios based on some historical facts. I have no issue with color blind casting, or local accents being used etc
If anything it makes this year another bloody Tudor drama seem like it might be a bit different from all the rest.
And she’s a really great actor.

ukgift2016 · 21/12/2020 07:18

Well I won't be watching. How is this ok? There be uproar if a white person played an historic black character.

Elfinghecking · 21/12/2020 07:30

‘When Harrison Ford is cast to play Nelson Mandela would your answer be the same?’

Give that the story of
Nelson Mandela is based around race and racial discrimination that would be nonsensical. So no, it wouldn’t. But to me casting a black actor for this role is no different to a female Hamlet.

Inappropriatestudent · 21/12/2020 07:36

Jonathon Rhys Myers is 5 foot 10. That's not short.

DarceyDashwood · 21/12/2020 07:53

Why can’t people see there is a massive difference in colour-blind casting when it comes to a figure where skin colour isn’t an integral part of the story as in this case, and one where it is (eg Rosa Parks).

Also why is it always people complaining about ‘woke’ (🙄) stuff that spell things like ‘yoof’ ‘rulez’ etc? Always get a sense of simmering inner-rage

terrywynne · 21/12/2020 08:10

The yoof at the BBC who decided 'wot a radical ideeya to have a person of colour as Anne Boleyn' are probably out of breath right now, from the amount of time they must have spent blowing smoke up each others arses.

Nice attempt to have a dig at the BBC for being too 'woke (and by other posters too). However 30secs on Google will tell you It is a Channel 5 production

Which frankly is the cause of my main reservations about the programme - call me snobby but I have not generally found channel 5 to produce the best quality dramas.

DrDetriment · 21/12/2020 09:00

I'm very much looking forward to seeing Hugh Laurie play Barak Obama. Hugh is surely the best person for the role so colour doesn't matter does it? Kate Winslett could be Michelle. And Jackie Chan as Imran Khan. Doesn't matter that Jackie is Hong Kong Chinese does it? We can see past colour.

Anne Boleyn was a real person, not a fictional character, and she should be represented by someone of her own race to maintain the integrity of her story, exactly in the same way as we would expect the Obamas or Khan to be portrayed appropriately.

pringlebells · 21/12/2020 09:01

It's just not historically accurate.

BashfulClam · 21/12/2020 09:05

It annoys me because it’s ‘look how woke we are!’

liverbird10 · 21/12/2020 09:22

@pringlebells

It's just not historically accurate.
So what?
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