Page 3 | Relative now going to be alone at Christmas in Tier 4

WoolieLiberal · 2020-12-19T20:31:51+00:00

A relative is extremely upset as they are now Going to be totally alone in Tier 4 on Christmas Day. They were meant to be coming to us and are very upset. Is there nothing we can do?

ThatLibraryMiss · 19/12/2020 22:28

You can see your support bubble still but no overnight stays.

Where did you find the bit about overnight stays? As far as I’m aware if you’re in a bubble with another household you’re effectively one household and can stay.

@1Morewineplease, if neither you nor your mum are bubbled with another household she can come to you. You are allowed to travel to see your bubble. It says here:

Travelling out of a tier 4 area
You must stay at home and not leave your Tier 4 area, other than for legally permitted reasons such as:

travel to work where you cannot work from home
travel to education and for caring responsibilities

visit those in your support bubble - or your childcare bubble for childcare

attend hospital, GP and other medical appointments or visits where you have had an accident or are concerned about your health.

Girlzroolz · 19/12/2020 22:28

Any chance your relative can be on video with your household, on & off throughout the day? I’m sure many people around the world are making the best of it by joining in virtually.

I get that it might be a bit awkward if their lunch isn’t as fancy as yours, or if they don’t have presents to open at their end. But surely most people would prefer to join in the fun from afar, rather than actually be sat alone?

You can still have a singalong, a laugh, and indulge in tat and nostalgia. You can pull ‘virtual crackers’ online together, and wear silly hats. You can enjoy seeing the joy and craziness of kids, and pray together (if that’s your bag).

HainaultViaNewburyPark · 19/12/2020 22:29

@UrghThisIsHard - I don’t think this is allowed. Last time I checked the legislation there was a provision that said if you’d been part of a linked household (commonly referred to a a bubble) since a particular date (mid-September IIRC) then you couldn’t be part of another bubble - irrespective of whether your initial bubble had ceased to exist.

AcornAutumn · 19/12/2020 22:30

[quote HainaultViaNewburyPark]@UrghThisIsHard - I don’t think this is allowed. Last time I checked the legislation there was a provision that said if you’d been part of a linked household (commonly referred to a a bubble) since a particular date (mid-September IIRC) then you couldn’t be part of another bubble - irrespective of whether your initial bubble had ceased to exist.[/quote]
Did the legislation say how that bubble would be decided? I’ve found the legislation on that really impossible to understand- I’m not a lawyer.

ThatLibraryMiss · 19/12/2020 22:31

@Nunoftheother

I will say though, support bubbles - while not changeable day to day - do not have to stay static. A lot can happen over the course of year.

I thought they did?

No, you can change subject to certain conditions, set out here (which is linked to from here, so is presumably applicable to the new Tier 4).

TheRubyRedshoes · 19/12/2020 22:32

Girl zroolz lovely idea but the way you describe some inequalities in the set up made me laugh... I mean it could have the potential to make a situation worse if one side is in warm Christmas splendour, lavished with booze, food and gifts, lots of family and the other is stranded in grey gloom, with some dry crackers and a cup of tea..

lookdeepintotheparka · 19/12/2020 22:32

@Cam2020

It’s missing your plans on a day to save lives. Get a grip people.

Really?! Aren't suicides usually up over Christmas during normal times, often due to feelings of isolation? What do you think will happen this year? What about carers who already often live isolated and difficult lives? What do you thi k this year so, far has, already done to them? If they're among the suicides, what happens to their dependents? Easy to get a grip if you have a family who lives with you and you haven't lost a job or are facing losing your business or home.

Yes a relative attempted suicide last year and has unsurprisingly found this year incredibly challenging for her fragile MH. I will be picking her up from another area (same tier -2) and bringing her to spend Christmas with us this year rather than being completely alone.

These are the kinds of decisions people are having to make for anyone who is finding it easy to judge

Dishwashersaurous · 19/12/2020 22:38

If someone has a support bubble with another family then they are treated as a single household for all purposes- staying overnight etc. Therefore if you and your mother are in a support bubble you can do whatever with her that you do with your nuclear family.

AlliWantForChristmasIsGin · 19/12/2020 22:40

@Grenlei

You can stay overnight with your support bubble. You can also leave tier 4 to visit your support bubble, alternatively they can enter tier 4 to visit you.

The only people you can stay overnight with are either those in your household OR those in your support bubble.

Your support bubble doesn't have to be local. Mine isn't.

Just checking-this info is critical to us-where did the info about being able to leave tier 4 to be with support bubble come from? I've been poring over all the stuff I can find and didn't see this.

Dishwashersaurous · 19/12/2020 22:42

Support bubble counts as one household. Therefore you can move to get to your support bubble

majesticallyawkward · 19/12/2020 22:44

OP, can the relative form a bubble or go to a bubble they are already in? Can you get them to you?

With the best will in the world video calls will do shit all for people isolated and alone. It's been 9 long months of shitty zoom calls, virtual quizzes, isolation, loneliness, desperation and hopelessness. To have a small piece of hope taken away so close is heartbreaking, i can't even imagine what it's like for anyone alone or struggling with MH. There has to be a balance of keeping the spread of Covid down while vaccines are rolled out and looking after everything else (livelihoods, incomes, MH).

Chailatte20 · 19/12/2020 22:44

www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55056375

Suzi888 · 19/12/2020 22:44

Support bubbles ARE allowed to stay overnight. You can't stay overnight with anyone who is not in your household or support bubble I.e you can stay overnight with your household or support bubble.
^^ CORRECT

ThatLibraryMiss · 19/12/2020 22:44

@AlliWantForChristmasIsGin, here

Travelling out of a tier 4 area
You must stay at home and not leave your Tier 4 area, other than for legally permitted reasons such as: [...]

visit those in your support bubble

AndcalloffChristmas · 19/12/2020 22:47

Support bubbles absolutely can stay overnight. The whole idea is to make sure no one is all alone over Christmas, or all alone with their kids.

For a support bubble you can even cross tiers, although no ideal to do so.

Relative now going to be alone at Christmas in Tier 4

Ashmonster · 19/12/2020 22:51

You can change your support bubble, but there must be a 10 day gap between seeing anyone in your new bubble. I noticed this in the new Tier 4 guidelines today.

Nowaynothappening · 19/12/2020 22:53

My Nan is spending Christmas alone too. She’s spent most of the year alone tbf, she hasn’t left the house since March. My Uncle does her food shopping every week and drops it on the doorstep, she then sanitises everything she possibly can. She sits in the garden for fresh air and paces up and down for exercise. She bought an iPad and we had to attempt to teach her how to use it over the phone (not easy!) so at least she can use FaceTime and receive photos now. We’ve sat in the garden and talked to her through the window a few times too. It’s been truly shit for her but, in her own words, ‘I did not survive bowel cancer last year to let a virus kill me this year’. Fair enough.

Some people will be alone. It’s one Christmas though, they do happen every year...

YellowandGreenToBeSeen · 19/12/2020 23:07

I’m alone this Christmas. My parents are CEV so I can’t see them.

No friends want to bubble with me - they are seeing solo family members etc.

FindHungrySamurai · 19/12/2020 23:21

Suicide rates do not go up at Christmas, that’s an irresponsible myth.

Nunoftheother · 20/12/2020 00:58

[quote UrghThisIsHard]@Nunoftheother What if it was a friend who moved away? What if it was a relative who died? What if it was a boyfriend who you broke up with? What if you suddenly need one because your wife left?[/quote]
Those are very specific circumstances and tbh I don't know what the "rules" would be in those cases. But I meant that, in principle, once you form a support bubble you're not meant to change it.

ThatLibraryMiss · 20/12/2020 09:37

in principle, once you form a support bubble you're not meant to change it

I don't know where you're getting this information, given that the government has clearly considered that people will want and/or need to change support bubbles and has set out the steps for doing so here. This is presumably current advice as it's linked to from another government webpage about Tier 4, here.

UrghThisIsHard · 20/12/2020 11:09

^This.

Nunoftheother · 20/12/2020 14:14

@ThatLibraryMiss

in principle, once you form a support bubble you're not meant to change it

I don't know where you're getting this information, given that the government has clearly considered that people will want and/or need to change support bubbles and has set out the steps for doing so here. This is presumably current advice as it's linked to from another government webpage about Tier 4, here.

I do understand that, I'm just saying it's not encouraged and the safest thing is to stick within one support bubble, if possible. That's common sense, not "information".

Original poster

WoolieLiberal · 23/12/2020 13:12

Thanks for all the responses. I’m
Sure this is a common issue. Bubble with a neighbour who also lives alone is what’s going to happen. Not ideal but better than being alone.

OP posts:

Nanny0gg · 23/12/2020 13:18

@Grenlei

You can stay overnight with your support bubble. You can also leave tier 4 to visit your support bubble, alternatively they can enter tier 4 to visit you.

The only people you can stay overnight with are either those in your household OR those in your support bubble.

Your support bubble doesn't have to be local. Mine isn't.

^^This

My widowed friends are in permitted family support bubbles out of tier.

They will be staying with them at Christmas.