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Original poster

Relative now going to be alone at Christmas in Tier 4

76 replies

WoolieLiberal · 19/12/2020 20:31

A relative is extremely upset as they are now
Going to be totally alone in Tier 4 on Christmas Day. They were meant to be coming to us and are very upset.

Is there nothing we can do?

OP posts:
lyralalala · 19/12/2020 21:43

@Dragonglass

Even those in support bubbles are not allowed to stay overnight.

From gov.uk:

'You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.'

Does that not mean you can’t stay overnight unless you live with them or are in a support bubble with?

That’s how I read that at first glance

LadyTiredWinterBottom2 · 19/12/2020 21:45

I would not leave Tier 4. Our local hospitals are wat breaking point, we are amongst the highest rate of infection in the country. Don't risk spreading the new strain somewhere else, for the love of God. The NHS will end up on its knees.

RichardMarxisinnocent · 19/12/2020 21:45

@Dragonglass

Even those in support bubbles are not allowed to stay overnight.

From gov.uk:

'You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.'

Support bubbles ARE allowed to stay overnight. You can't stay overnight with anyone who is not in your household or support bubble I.e you can stay overnight with your household or support bubble.
Dragonglass · 19/12/2020 21:50

On rereading it a dozen times, it could mean that. I don't know anymore.

heidipi · 19/12/2020 21:50

Yep my 82 year old mum is going to be alone, after months of being mostly alone. She has been isolating, so have we, ahead of Xmas. We weren't going to see anyone else over Xmas. It's a 5 hour round trip, so that would be 10 hours of driving if I went to get her and took her back the same day. Or 5 hours for us to visit her and come back. And we're supposed to 'stay local' anyway. Lots of worse things have happened to people this year and we're lucky that we will see her at some point next year, but still I feel so guilty and terrible for her. I haven't told the DC yet, they'll be so upset. It's shit and I really feel for everyone.

UrghThisIsHard · 19/12/2020 21:51

Seems like a strange line in the sand. I’ll heed it because I don’t want the guilt of spreading London germs in the north east but my family would catch it - or not - regardless of whether I stayed over night.

Mustbe3ormorecharacters · 19/12/2020 21:56

It’s missing your plans on a day to save lives. Get a grip people.

UrghThisIsHard · 19/12/2020 21:59

Oh so we can stay over generally but I shouldn’t because I’d be leaving tier 4? I guess - because of the new strain, not the numbers - that’s fair enough.

I wouldn’t usually look for a loophole and I sort of don’t give a shit (because I’m already mentally unwell right now and Christmas won’t have an impact either way) but it’s likely my dad’s last Christmas so my parents were hoping we could have it together.

Anyway, it is what it is. Flowers to anyone struggling.

CeibaTree · 19/12/2020 22:00

@Dragonglass

Even those in support bubbles are not allowed to stay overnight.

From gov.uk:

'You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.'

I read that differently to you - to me it says you can't stay with anyone you don't live with or anyone you are not in a support bubble with.
BooFuckingHoo2 · 19/12/2020 22:00

*Even those in support bubbles are not allowed to stay overnight.

From gov.uk:

'You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.'*

This is where grammar comes into play Grin

Assuming the govt have used correct grammar then yes support bubbles are allowed to say overnight.

Nunoftheother · 19/12/2020 22:01

I will say though, support bubbles - while not changeable day to day - do not have to stay static. A lot can happen over the course of year.

I thought they did?

BillysMyBunny · 19/12/2020 22:02

To everybody saying as a single person household they can bubble up at Christmas, they can only do that if they’re not already in a support bubble. I’m in a support bubble with friends who live locally to me, I’ve seen them about once a month over all of this. They’re the people I’m closest to locally (I moved to my area for work and haven’t lived here long) but I’m certainly not close enough to them to be invited to be part of their Christmas. I was planning to spend Christmas with my family who aren’t local but now that won’t be possible. I can’t just decide to join another support bubble with family, switching is not allowed, so I will be alone for the day; I’m sure I’m not the only single person to find myself in a similar situation and so the support bubble system isn’t that helpful in all cases.

Whycatspaint · 19/12/2020 22:03

Im so sorry @UrghThisIsHard. Flowers

UrghThisIsHard · 19/12/2020 22:03

@Nunoftheother What if it was a friend who moved away? What if it was a relative who died? What if it was a boyfriend who you broke up with? What if you suddenly need one because your wife left?

UrghThisIsHard · 19/12/2020 22:05

@Whycatspaint thank you. I know I’m just one of many. Smile

Lobsterquadrille2 · 19/12/2020 22:10

My mother is 90 and lives alone. I live about 10 minutes walk away with my 23 year old daughter. We are all tier 4 and, prior to today's announcement, were combining our bubble with that of my sister, her daughter and grandchildren, also tier 4 and also one bubble (my niece is a doctor and sister is her support).

However it's about risk not allowable bubbles. My niece, a doctor on a maternity ward, says that many mothers are testing positive although asymptotic. This really concerns me, more than whether I have wiggle room around the rules, so we have changed our plans to a Zoom Christmas. I'd like to keep my mother safe and well for some time longer.

Grenlei · 19/12/2020 22:14

You can stay overnight with your support bubble. You can also leave tier 4 to visit your support bubble, alternatively they can enter tier 4 to visit you.

The only people you can stay overnight with are either those in your household OR those in your support bubble.

Your support bubble doesn't have to be local. Mine isn't.

AcornAutumn · 19/12/2020 22:16

@BooFuckingHoo2

*Even those in support bubbles are not allowed to stay overnight.

From gov.uk:

'You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.'*

This is where grammar comes into play Grin

Assuming the govt have used correct grammar then yes support bubbles are allowed to say overnight.

I think this is clear. You can stay overnight with your bubble.
AcornAutumn · 19/12/2020 22:18

@Nunoftheother

I will say though, support bubbles - while not changeable day to day - do not have to stay static. A lot can happen over the course of year.

I thought they did?

How does anyone know?

My best mate was originally in a bubble with her parents but now her father is in chemo so she can’t do that.

Cam2020 · 19/12/2020 22:20

It’s missing your plans on a day to save lives. Get a grip people.

Really?! Aren't suicides usually up over Christmas during normal times, often due to feelings of isolation? What do you think will happen this year? What about carers who already often live isolated and difficult lives? What do you thi k this year so, far has, already done to them? If they're among the suicides, what happens to their dependents? Easy to get a grip if you have a family who lives with you and you haven't lost a job or are facing losing your business or home.

MorganKitten · 19/12/2020 22:23

They can form a bubble with sone in the same tier, we can’t leave 4 and go to a lower tier.

Grenlei · 19/12/2020 22:25

No - visiting a support bubble is one of the reasons you CAN leave tier 4 and go to a lower tier, and vice versa.

You don't have to be in a bubble with someone in the same tier.

TheRubyRedshoes · 19/12/2020 22:25

Heidipi

So, if you and she has been isolating can I ask what you joint risks of covid are?

Can you bring her to live with you on a temp basis over Xmas?..

I aim sorry if I am missing something but I can't see what the risk is, bar breaking down etx.

nanbread · 19/12/2020 22:26

Your support bubble doesn't have to be local. Mine isn't.

No it doesn't, but it certainly makes sense for it to be in many cases, and it is recommended it is local to stop infection spread.

Given the new strain and climbing rates, someone in a tier 4 area creating a new Christmas bubble with family in another area so they can see them, when the law is not to travel, feels unwise.

Having said that, it's a very difficult situation for those who are potentially facing a Christmas alone.

TheRubyRedshoes · 19/12/2020 22:26

Boris esp said, people alone or risk of mh issues, it's OK for Xmas etc.