To find this revelation from an NHS carer shocking?

[Lizzie523]

I have a very vulnerable family member that I have not seen since covid. She is now in the late stages of alzheimers and have been starting to wonder if I will ever see her again.

Recently her carers had been visiting her whilst also going to look after a person with covid at the same time. Their highers up explicitly told them they must not inform us or other family members this was happening/the risk to her.

So far she has not caught covid but I dont feel confident about it not happening in future. AIBU to be beside myself with worry?

baubles I think that is generally true. I also think the idea of being unable to control risks in relation to your home is a lot more threatening than in a public place (especially when in recent times we have been encouraged to view home as a safe space).

I’m intrigued though whether people would really genuinely not want to be resuscitated because the Resus team also work with covid patients.

Or would not want to be ventilated if they had eg a brain haemorrhage, because that would require a transfer for a bed, by a transfer team who also work with covid patients.

Etc

How good is the PPE? Is it the same standard they would use in a Covid ward or is it a flimsy apron and mask? I can't speak for this company but I work in a care home. The masks we get are the same as NHS ones BUT they get one per 30 minutes. We get one per 7 hours.

My partner works on ambulances and community care companies on the whole have been awful for providing their staff PPE. He's been to so many calls where the carer was wearing no PPE and they said they didn't have any.

@baublesbaubleseverywhere

Most (though not all) people on here who think this is shocking do not work in health and social care. Those of us that do have the knowledge and experience to know that it's both unavoidable and that there are stringent measures in place to keep both workers and clients safe. So there is a big element of the fear of the unknown. Which is understandable.

I agree.

Also as a general rule, anyone in the nhs who wears PPE is dreamed low risk. That’s it.
That’s the nurse working in a ward with Covid patient, A&E or the paramedics.
If they were asked the self isolate, there would no one to look after people in hospital or in the community.

And unfortunately I don’t think there is any other alternative, incl when it comes to caring for elderly people etc...

What type of PPE do you think staff wear on a COVID ward?

@StephenBelafonte I am not the POA so it is not my decision to make. But seeing as you mention it, the POA is not able to provide the level of care needed. They do as much as they can and more than their sibling who does nothing at all.

It is not reasonable to assume that all families are able to do this.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

How good is the PPE? Is it the same standard they would use in a Covid ward or is it a flimsy apron and mask? I can't speak for this company but I work in a care home. The masks we get are the same as NHS ones BUT they get one per 30 minutes. We get one per 7 hours.

My partner works on ambulances and community care companies on the whole have been awful for providing their staff PPE. He's been to so many calls where the carer was wearing no PPE and they said they didn't have any.

That's not true, certainly not everywhere. In the community I change my mask after every client. In the in-patient unit I change it every 4hrs.

(I have also come across carers not wearing their PPE properly, and have reported it every time)

What sort of PPE do you think community nurses wear when looking after Covid patients at home?

@christinarossetti19

Cardiepockets in that case, given the soaring rise in covid cases, agencies would be in the position of not being able to provide carers who they could guarantee hadn't been in contact with someone with the virus.

Carers are paid the minimum wage, often no travel time and treated like shit by most agencies. If you want carers to go home and put their feet up once they've treated one patient with covid, you'd need a lot more carers being paid a lot more.

That’s not the elderly person in need of cares problem.

And you’ve just said cases are soaring so they shouldn’t be putting their feet up after one patient I’d imagine they’d be busy with quite a lot.

Unless there isn’t a lot of covid elderly patients and it’s just really bad management.

OP I know not all relatives can do the care themselves but I have to tell you that i'm shocked and disgusted at the amount of relatives that ARE able to do the care, but don't. And saddened too.

@Cardiepockets but you're still not able to give a workable solution, are you?

@ekidmxcl

It’s unacceptable IMO, no matter how it is justified. My fil has several carers in per day. He’s over 80 and his GP won’t vaccinate him because he’s housebound and the vaccine isn’t transportable due to not remaining stable. Well he’s housebound NEXT DOOR to the fucking GP. And they aren’t going to vaccinate him due to this red tape. He’s a few feet from where people are being vaccinated. Nobody is able to use their own brain, all we do is follow procedures. Terrifying.

@ekidmxcl The chances are the vaccine wont be getting administered at his GP surgery. The only way they can give 975 doses in one day is by several surgeries coming together to administer to patients in one go. In Hampshire this is taking place in hotels where there are sufficient conference rooms and space for parking. I'm sure once the astrazenica vaccine is approved they'll be able to give it more locally but that's definitely not possible at the moment with the Pfizer one.

I have an elderly relative with dementia. We had to make difficult decisions regarding visits. We are lucky they generally have the same 2 ir 3 carers, but deciding not to visit was not just to protect the relative, but the carer, her other clients, her family and so on. If the carer got Covid, relative would lose that familar care in an already confused state. Theres no easy answers, luckily in our case relative can understand about virus at the moment.

@ekidmxcl the GP isn't refusing to vaccinate your FIL because he's housebound, it's because the vaccine has to be stored at a certain temperature and in certain conditions.

Could a family member take him in to have it?

i honestly dont know what you want them to do-they cant have seprate staff for covid clients how would that work theres not enough

There are limited numbers of caters, are you saying that if they have COVID no one should be cared for? Or that others that don’t have COVID shouldn’t be cared for as there are not enough carers?

As others have said they will wear ppe and the COVID cases should be at the end of the run

If you decide to change the care package this would have to be agreed

@Bargebill19

Not surprised you weren’t informed. Suspect it was down to the bottom line (££££) not a morally based decision. Personally I believe you have every right to be angry and should have been informed. This happened in my ex care home - I whistle blew and lost my job.

I'm sorry you were put in that situation, but glad there are/were carers like you who have high morals and respect. Hope you're in a better place now

Can you confirm @Lizzie523 whether the carers you are talking about are part of a care package, which is not funded or staffed by the NHS, or a package of care provided via social services via a private care agency ? Or do they like a lot of people, have combination of the two ?

@frumpety I believe it is a combination of the two

[quote baublesbaubleseverywhere]@Cardiepockets but you're still not able to give a workable solution, are you? [/quote]
It’s not my job to do. It’s the careers job to say to their bosses - no I’m not doing that it’s unfair on the vulnerable patients. It’s the careers managers job to find a solution. I shouldn’t have to find solutions for businesses or the NHS to stop cross infection.

We are ramming home the importance of self isolation and social distancing to protect the vulnerable and the elderly - thread after thread on MN yet at the very base level we are having careers going in with the very real possibility of cross infection to the people we are supposed to be protecting.

I understand careers might be over run and scarce - but it’s still unacceptable.

What makes you think you're in any way entitled to another person's private medical information??
Btw. You're not.

Yabu.

@frumpety whether they are funded by social services or by NHS via CHC funding, the carers will be coming from a private agency and the same infection control and confidentiality procedures should be in place.

@ekidmxcl I'm a 'fucking GP'. We've been at work all weekend, on top of 50-60 hour working weeks, to vaccinate patients - which is being done at large centres, not GP surgeries (unless the surgery happens to be a very large one, covering more than 30,000 patients). The UK is the first to roll out a vaccination programme. Thousands of volunteers are giving their time to help. GPs and nurses have come out of retirement to help. We've put our own family lives and Christmas preparations on hold. And that's still not good enough for you? Fuck you.

christinarossetti19 I was just pointing out people can be informed without breaking confidentiality It won't change the situaton but openness and transparency is hugely important for maintaining relationships and trust between care providers and their service users and families. It also gives the service users/their loved ones the opportunity to ask any questions.

So private carers for the everyday personal care of hygeine needs, meals and medication prompts and NHS for specific health related tasks such as injections and wound care etc ?