To find this revelation from an NHS carer shocking?

[Lizzie523]

I have a very vulnerable family member that I have not seen since covid. She is now in the late stages of alzheimers and have been starting to wonder if I will ever see her again.

Recently her carers had been visiting her whilst also going to look after a person with covid at the same time. Their highers up explicitly told them they must not inform us or other family members this was happening/the risk to her.

So far she has not caught covid but I dont feel confident about it not happening in future. AIBU to be beside myself with worry?

@1FootInTheRave

They will be using ppe and the covid positive person should ideally be the last visit.

People with the virus still need care.

See I find this really odd.

We have thread upon thread of the horror of spreading the virus. Yet your expecting vulnerable people to have to deal with careers that are working with people with covid?

There should be no cross over. Period.

If you are wearing the correct PPE and following infection control procedures properly, then you are not "spreading the virus all over". That is just scaremongering. If you in someone's home, wearing the correct PPE, then you don't need to be contacted by Test and Trace via the app. That's because when you were with the person who later tested positive, you had PPE to prevent you getting infected.

But we all know it doesn’t really work like that does it. While you’re right that test and trace don’t need to contact such staff we know many, many staff wearing the correct ppe have caught covid after caring for positive covid patients. Yes you can always argue they could have caught it in the supermarket, etc but from the amount of nhs staff I know who have caught it that doesn’t seem to be the case. They’re getting it at work, a vapour resistant paper mask isn’t infallible.

I work in the community. I see both covid and non covid patients. Take covid swabs etc.
I wear PPE for them all.
All community nurses and carers will be coming into contact with covid and non covid patients.
Same as GP's, practice nurses etc.
It's upsetting that you might not see your relative as I'm upset I haven't saw my grandad for 3 month due to living in a care home with Alzheimer's.

@Badbackbernie it would be impossible for community covid +ve to their own community staff. Well, maybe not if we had infinite staff available. But we don't.
But maybe you know how to make it work?

Badbackbernie how do you propose that that would work in practice?

As pp say, HCPs are working with everyone as though they have the virus in terms of infection control.

Some of the people needing care will be covid positive - they still need care. People will be carrying the virus before they have symptoms - how can these people be identified?

Hospitals are now testing patients very regularly, but there isn't the space or numbers of staff to keep covid positive and covid negative patients completely apart. It's heartbreaking for staff and carers who are already running on empty.

@Lizzie523

Hardly comparable to normal times is it *@MissLucyEyelesbarrow*?

Especially as we have now just been told this next mutation is the most transmissible of all.

It's a perfectly valid comparison, and I notice you haven't been able to give any reason why it isn't comparable. There are many infectious diseases that are more dangerous than Covid and that staff on a hospital ward might be treating.

You also need to remember that 70% of Covid infections have no symptoms so, most of the time, HCPs will be unaware that they are treating someone with it. That's why we use PPE for everyone.

There should be no cross over. Period.

That’s just not feasible for every service.

For example, we can only staff the upscaled ICU by breaching the normal rules of staffing (eg using 1 nurse to 2 or 3 patients where normally it would be 1 to 1). This is because we have doubled the number of critical care beds but weirdly the magic nursing and doctoring trees have yet to bear fruit.

So some services eg critical care outreach, cover the entire hospital. We just don’t have 2 doctors and 2 nurses spare to provide a complete duplicate service. Same for surgeons, obstetricians etc etc. Of course there are steps to take; PPE, hand washing, order of reviews. But the idea that every service can be duplicate for covid positive and negative is just pie in the sky.

They are not suppose to be telling you others medical info. You have no right to that info "I need to inform you that another service user has tested positive for Covid." The person with covid would remain anonymous.

But if there was “no crossover. Period.” then does that mean only Covid positive doctors work on Covid wards? Or is it only OK if it’s a carer (on a zero-hours, minimum wage job) to work exclusively with Covid positive clients?

It becomes impossible to do : would you work with Covid +ve patients only, if you could instead choose to work with only Covid -ve ones? I wouldn’t! Why should a carer then? Why should a doctor/nurse/midwife/etc?

[quote baublesbaubleseverywhere]@Badbackbernie it would be impossible for community covid +ve to their own community staff. Well, maybe not if we had infinite staff available. But we don't.
But maybe you know how to make it work? [/quote]
I really think it’s unacceptable. PPE is not a fail safe. Masks do not offer 100% protection. It’s really not ok to send a career in to home knowing full well that they have been with a covid patient.

Why are elderly people always given the short end of the straw?

Not everybody has covid. If a private company or NHS can not separate careers in to covid and non covid careers then it’s piss poor.

Why should elderly people who have been trapped in their homes for a year, with out family visiting, falling in to deterioration have some one entering their homes knowing they have been around covid patients?

It’s piss poor and it’s down to the careers to say so.

"I need to inform you that another service user has tested positive for Covid."

But realistically, what would that change? Staff are working with every patient as though they may have the virus in terms of infection control.

What could be done differently?

People would be able to say that they didn't want medical treatment or to receive care, but if people didn't need these things they wouldn't be in hospital/having carers come in anyway I would have thought.

@ekidmxcl

It’s unacceptable IMO, no matter how it is justified. My fil has several carers in per day. He’s over 80 and his GP won’t vaccinate him because he’s housebound and the vaccine isn’t transportable due to not remaining stable. Well he’s housebound NEXT DOOR to the fucking GP. And they aren’t going to vaccinate him due to this red tape. He’s a few feet from where people are being vaccinated. Nobody is able to use their own brain, all we do is follow procedures. Terrifying.

Of course, the GP should take the time out of vaccinating numerous patients to go vaccinate your family, even though he's housebound and so is probably less at risk of actually getting covid. Where should the GP stop, how about the person in the house next to you FIL, and while he's only next door he can go to the next one, then the next, and so on. Nevermins that the vaccine can only actually be moved 4 times before a whole vial of 950 doses needs throwing away 4 doors down. Honestly, some people don't have the brains they are born with.

OP-i work on ambulances, do you propose that I don't go and save the next life because I've just sat for 5 hoylrs with a COVID positive patient 10 minutes ago? Would you turn me away from giving CPR to your loved one because I was with a positive patient 10 minutes ago?

What if the patient is asymptomatic? Should I get a test before treating the next one? Really people, think this through.

@Cardiepockets you quote me, where I'm clearly saying it's just not possible in practice. Then demand that this should not be the case. What do you suggest is done about it?
Have you read all the other posts where people talk about how staff cross over there too?

Cardiepockets in that case, given the soaring rise in covid cases, agencies would be in the position of not being able to provide carers who they could guarantee hadn't been in contact with someone with the virus.

Carers are paid the minimum wage, often no travel time and treated like shit by most agencies. If you want carers to go home and put their feet up once they've treated one patient with covid, you'd need a lot more carers being paid a lot more.

No way would there be enough good carers volunteering to work only with Covid +ve patients if they could instead work only with Covid -ve ones.

Given that surveys seem to suggest over 40% of carers will opt out of the vaccine (which it is there right to do).

@YesMeLady

Are carers working in ppe and on the assumption that any client or relative could be positive. They cannot pass on confidential medical info to other clients or their families. You could ask what precautions they are taking. How do you know they have a covid positive client if they have been told not to discuss it.

If you take that confidentiality to the nth degree it would mean no one in the country would know anything about covid number of infections or death rate because it would be 'confidential.'

Op wasn't told names or about any particular patient just that the carers were treating a covid + patient too. Which sounds fair enough to me.

Some people really are clueless.

I knew mn had dumbed down in recent years but some posts are just ridiculous.

@GarlicMushroom

I'm a community midwife. We visit women at home that are covid pos and those that are covid neg. Ppe is the same. And wouldn't ever tell another patient personal medical details of others. Yabu

That's awful. I'm pregnant and would be really upset to find you'd knowingly come into my home having been with someone with Covid, when let's face it, most postnatal visits seem more about box checking than anything else.

I'm a seasoned home carer and since the virus broke out in March, not one single family has offered to care for their relative themselves but to let the care company continue doing the care, even though they are obviously visiting other people who are Covid positive.

Not one.

Most (though not all) people on here who think this is shocking do not work in health and social care. Those of us that do have the knowledge and experience to know that it's both unavoidable and that there are stringent measures in place to keep both workers and clients safe. So there is a big element of the fear of the unknown. Which is understandable.

Is be horrified too op

True @baublesbaubleseverywhere. It is hard to hear this. It is very frightening. I know it is hard for carers too.

I am just praying this vaccine will be available soon

@HighSpecWhistle most services will have moved "box ticking exercises" to telephone or video.

This makes me think of all the posts on here that bemoan services stopped doing face to face. We're damned if we do and we're dammed we don't

OP now that you know this, what will you do to protect your relative? Will you provide the care yourself?

So for those of you proposing covid/non covid care teams, who is going to organise daily testing of every person receiving care?