To find this revelation from an NHS carer shocking?

[Lizzie523]

I have a very vulnerable family member that I have not seen since covid. She is now in the late stages of alzheimers and have been starting to wonder if I will ever see her again.

Recently her carers had been visiting her whilst also going to look after a person with covid at the same time. Their highers up explicitly told them they must not inform us or other family members this was happening/the risk to her.

So far she has not caught covid but I dont feel confident about it not happening in future. AIBU to be beside myself with worry?

I understand your concerns but Nurses and carers are use to looking after pt's with all sorts of infectious and contagious diseases and are trained in Infection prevention and control. Hopefully her carers will be taking the necessary IPC precautions and are properly equipped with and using the correct PPE, washing hands etc. As a p.p. said, infected clients should be visited last. She should not be sharing confidential information about her other clients though!

@ekidmxcl

It’s unacceptable IMO, no matter how it is justified. My fil has several carers in per day. He’s over 80 and his GP won’t vaccinate him because he’s housebound and the vaccine isn’t transportable due to not remaining stable. Well he’s housebound NEXT DOOR to the fucking GP. And they aren’t going to vaccinate him due to this red tape. He’s a few feet from where people are being vaccinated. Nobody is able to use their own brain, all we do is follow procedures. Terrifying.

Possibly because it needs to be given in a location with access to emergency drugs etc plus I believe needs 15 minutes of observation afterwards. Not currently possible to do home visits for this vaccine for these reasons, next door or otherwise.

The OP is just stating that she feels it is the right thing to have been told. She surely wouldn't be asking for the patients name address and date of birth!... but surely she has the right to be informed that her family members carer is in contact with people with covid? Track and trace informs us if we have been in a certain vicinity so why isn't this happening with carers? If it's a private carer I would assume it is to do with money! Of course the company don't want their patients to know because they don't want them cancelling the care package and losing out on money which seems very morally wrong to me

[quote baublesbaubleseverywhere]@Plumbuddle well you better report the entire NHS, then. The whole point of PPE is to stop transmission. So why would I need to isolate following contact with a +ve client if I've been following full PHE guidelines? [/quote]
I'm not saying you should isolate. You should do whatever you consider best or that your profession requires. But everyone should use track and trace otherwise that system will not work. It's the failure to start this whole pandemic with a proper track and trace system that has got us to the situation we are now in. It's so important to get the data right.

If PPE stops coronavirus spreading completely

Why can't we have christmas with our families wearing it?

@baublesbaubleseverywhere

(Or, *@Plumbuddle*, are you expecting staff to self isolate after every contact with a +ve client? Your wards and community would be devoid of staff pretty quick if that was the case).

Not at all. I don't have the same worries as the OP as I am aware that all health professionals, like anyone who works face to face, come into regular contact with covid. I simply expect people to use track and trace. I do not expect people to regard the track and trace system as forcing them to self isolate if their profession requires them not to. But they should contribute to proper record keeping just as every responsible adult should.

Alot about HIV posted on here... yes there are of course many transferable diseases not JUST covid.. BUT, HIV and alot of other transferable infections are not easily spread like covid is. HIV is only spread through bodily fluids.. carers would have to be really relaxed with their cleanliness to spread it. Covid is airbourne, it can be spread through the air and bodily fluids so IMO its not quite the same. Otherwise thered be a pandemic about all of the infectious diseases right? But no, its covid that is the main focus at the moment

I'd be interested to know how the conversation went between the carer and the relative about them not being allowed to tell them. And I'd also be interested to know if the carer had their own personal worries that influenced how the conversation went.
As part of their training, carers will be taught about confidentiality. I imagine that because of the high emotions around covid, they may have been given some additional advice around client confidentiality related to the virus. Because, as stated many times in this thread, if PPE is worn and infection control guidelines are adhered to, then the risk of transmission is very low.
We have no idea what was said between the carer and the relative.

Personally I don't think you're being unreasonable at all! I think you absolutely had the right to know. Sorry to hear you're going through this x

I would like to know too, bauble.

This should be reported. The PoA should have been advised. The issue with care homes happened because covid patients were put in a home with healthy patients. The nurses were taking care of both. Don’t come to mumsnet fir advice. Trust your gut.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

If PPE stops coronavirus spreading completely

Why can't we have christmas with our families wearing it?

PPE is one aspect of infection control. Carers / healthcare workers are unlikely to be in close proximity to clients for more than 45mins-1hr. Contact is short, not sustained.

Wearing PPE and following infection control guidelines is not conducive to having a nice Xmas day with your mum / granddad.

Agreed @TrixieMixie and @MyMorningHairHasItsOwnVlog.

Apparently the carer told the POA because she is so fond of my relative and felt terrible not to have told us. In the meantime the service provider sent a letter to the POA saying she must inform them if she tests covid positive. Different maybe, but I still feel there are massive holes in the line of reasoning.

If care homes have to make clear that there is a covid + resident present, why does the same not apply here? The POA is going to be following up on this.

@jwpetal

This should be reported. The PoA should have been advised. The issue with care homes happened because covid patients were put in a home with healthy patients. The nurses were taking care of both. Don’t come to mumsnet fir advice. Trust your gut.

I've posted a link to the CQC guidelines in an earlier post. Read that, then tell me what needs to be reported, exactly?

Also our relative didnt want to go into a home. We respected her wishes and have done our best to keep her at home - and since everything that has happened we are so glad we did.

This has shaken our sense of her being more safe. I suppose like a PP said it is almost an instinctual thing to think you will be safer in your own home.

As I have said before, care homes and care in the community are different. We look after a lot more residents, we are with them 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

This should be reported. The PoA should have been advised.

If you are unable to provide care for a relative during the pandemic, you have three choices, pay for one on one 24hr care or pay for carers who will be visiting other people, or pay for 24hr residential care where carers will be moving between residents.
It really is a rock and a hard place scenario, option one involves you hoping carers will be sensible during their off weeks, option two involves you hoping that care providers are providing sufficent and suitable PPE and option three involves you hoping the same as option one and two, with the added downside of if someone else in the home tests positive, you are not going to be able to move your relative elsewhere.

@Lizzie523 and they most likely are safer in their own home, as they are not sharing their home environment with someone who is positive.

All you can realistically expect is for the agency to advise you of their infection control guidelines and to tell you that that caring for covid +ve clients is part of their duties.
As has been said before, the only way to stop this is to employ a private carer who works exclusively for your relative. Then you have full control. I hope you get the resolution that you want.

I'm sure doctors move around wards too.
It isn't great as long as they are cleaning hands changing masks I don't think they have a choice.

@vodkaredbullgirl

As I have said before, care homes and care in the community are different. We look after a lot more residents, we are with them 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Quite. It might be enlightening if people actually took notice of what those who work on the frontline are saying on this thread.

Clearly some are not noticing what we are saying.

Has the carer discussed this with all her clients families or just the ones she is particularly fond of. The carer may need to explain to her manager why she divulged this information to this particular client.

The OP says that the carer is an NHS worker not from an agency, so the guidelines re: infection control are readily available online.

My mum has District Nurses going in twice a week. I was there briefly wearing a mask at a distance at the weekend as she had just come out of hospital (my whole household had negative covid tests last week and have SI since, so I am as sure as I can be that I'm not carrying the virus).

The nurse wore apron, mask, gloves, washed her hands on arrival and departure and I noticed only spoke briefly to my mother when she was close to her as she had to be to provide healthcare.

A patient admitted to the ward my mum was on tested positive for covid while she was in hospital. I obviously couldn't visit, but staff were obviously using infection control with every patient.

Of course there's a small risk that my mother will have contracted the virus. Her health is poor, she is unlikely to survive covid should she contract it BUT she would have died had she not been admitted to hospital for treatment when she was and would be extremely seriously ill within a week or so without treatment from District Nurses.

If you need health or social care provided by another human, then there is always a risk of a viruses being transmitted.

@christinarossetti19 I'm going to take a guess that the carers aren't NHS.

That is what I thought too baublesbaubleseverywhere although the title does explicitly say NHS carer, OP's latest post mentions a service provider.

I don't know. Having seen the strain that health and social care staff are continuing to work under and read their contributions on this thread, I'm not sure how I feel that about people not even knowing who they're criticising and complaining about.