To find this revelation from an NHS carer shocking?

[Lizzie523]

I have a very vulnerable family member that I have not seen since covid. She is now in the late stages of alzheimers and have been starting to wonder if I will ever see her again.

Recently her carers had been visiting her whilst also going to look after a person with covid at the same time. Their highers up explicitly told them they must not inform us or other family members this was happening/the risk to her.

So far she has not caught covid but I dont feel confident about it not happening in future. AIBU to be beside myself with worry?

just need to let you know, today I’ve been with a covid patient are you ok for me to come in

Seriously? What about the hundreds of other infectious diseases I come across on a regular basis? Ecoli, flu, hepatitis, rotavirus, norovirus, MRSA, pneumonia, tuberculosis.

I'm not sure if you are just stupid, or what, but it is OBVIOUS that a Dr or carer will have been in contact with infectious people during the course of their job.

Carers change continence pads and stoma bags, do intimate care for people. The risk of cross infection for gut born disease is very high, which is why they use PPE and follow hand hygiene and infection control measures.

In our hospital we try to keep clean wards and 'hot' wards separate, but almost all 'clean' wards have become hot at some point.

Of course it’s true hospitals are packed. They should be in side rooms though.

How many side rooms do you think hospitals have? At one point we considered turning the cafeteria in to a COVID ward. Our surgical recovery suite has 40 COVID beds in (it usually has 12 people in, immediately following surgery).

During the height of our COVID admissions it would have been more possible to put NONE covid patients in side rooms, but those side rooms would have been in inappropriate wards and on COVID wards.

@Almostslimjim

just need to let you know, today I’ve been with a covid patient are you ok for me to come in

Seriously? What about the hundreds of other infectious diseases I come across on a regular basis? Ecoli, flu, hepatitis, rotavirus, norovirus, MRSA, pneumonia, tuberculosis.

I'm not sure if you are just stupid, or what, but it is OBVIOUS that a Dr or carer will have been in contact with infectious people during the course of their job.

Carers change continence pads and stoma bags, do intimate care for people. The risk of cross infection for gut born disease is very high, which is why they use PPE and follow hand hygiene and infection control measures.

In our hospital we try to keep clean wards and 'hot' wards separate, but almost all 'clean' wards have become hot at some point.

The level of ignorance about what nursing and care entails is staggering. But hey. At least they clapped forus in March

There's a 180 Covid patients in my local hospital. Which is about 40% of the bed capacity. How many side rooms do you think there are? There aren't enough Covid wards and/or single rooms for them all.

What do you think happens in every icu? The person who is in icu for non Covid reasons is likely to be surrounded by Covid patients.

Some people on this thread have no idea about how much us carers have to. Go through on a daily basis. We also putting our health at risk.

If this thread doesn't illustrate why the Great Barrington declaration, "Shield the vulnerable! Let everyone else party like it's 2019" was a work of fantasy, then nothing else will.

We looked briefly - at the start of this - at having a covid team and a non-covid team. We discarded it pretty quickly for all the reasons outlined, but mostly because we had no way of knowing for sure who actually had covid. And then guidance came out that we were to assume that every patient had covid and wear PPE accordingly.

It's the same with every infectious disease. We assume everyone has HIV, and so wear gloves and sterilise everything appropriately. We wipe surfaces, because norovirus, regardless of whether that particular patient is crapping through the eye of a needle. When CJD came in, we started discarding any instruments that had been in contact with nerve tissue, regardless of whether that particular patient had been diagnosed with it. Universal precautions are a mainstay of infection control in any clinical environment.

So it galls a bit to be lectured on how irresponsible we are by someone who can't even spell 'carer'.

baublesbaubleseverywhere It's a good job I didn't claim it was universally true then 😂

Also I have a covid test every week as part of being a care assistant. I'm more worried by other people as at least I know if I'm clear or not.

OP

Do you realise the carers may also be visiting people with:

infected wounds
HIV
Hep A B or C
100+ other things

just need to let you know, today I’ve been with a covid patient are you ok for me to come in

Seriously? What about the hundreds of other infectious diseases I come across on a regular basis? Ecoli, flu, hepatitis, rotavirus, norovirus, MRSA, pneumonia, tuberculosis.

For our care home it is seen as a common courtesy to let loved ones know if there is an infectious disease in the home. If 2 residents have, lets say, a chest infection, it is classed as an outbreak and we have to inform out health protection team and family members. When I was in hospital we were all informed there was an outbreak of MRSA in the home.

Of course those having community carers will know there is a high chance of them going to positive people. It's more about the transparency and just a courtesy.

WaterOffADucksCrack

Care homes are different. Doctors and carers on home visits cannot do that. Hospital wards on the other hand do need to inform patients of certain infectious diseases (mainly MRSA and c-diff).

*worriedandannoyed8 yes it is true I'm afraid.

Hospitals are testing patients very regularly. Most patients go into hospital not knowing that they are covid positive and find out when they're there.

My mum has just come out of hospital. A patient in her bay was identified as covid positive and the staff did all they could to minimise transmission but they can't magic up extra wards or side rooms.

The hospital is full to capacity and is trying to keep rates down by transferring covid negative patients to another hospital in the same trust. This isn't possible when the other hosptial doesn't have the facilities to provide the care and treatment that the patient needs however.

They're also seriously struggling for specialist nursing staff esp in ICU.

Cardiepockets you can't have it both ways. Either you want health and social care staff to do all they can to minimise possible transmission to vulnerable older people in their own homes or you don't.

If the former, then it is completely appropriate that your grandmother's GP offered a video consultation for a minor condition that can be diagnosed online or even over the phone.

My mother's GP surgery is seeing some patients in as covid a safe way as possible and she was visited by her GP a couple of weeks ago. Obviously, some risk but much less risk that the risk of her not being seen.

Interventions like changing leg dressings and personal care cannot be done online or over the phone. In these instances, health and social care do their roles as safely as possible and of course people in receipt or care or services have the right to refuse them entry.

If she's severe I'm shocked she's in the community and not a home tbh.

@CorianderQueen there are many people who live in the community with end stage dementia, with their needs managed by health and social care teams.

At the hospitals the nurses deal with COVID patients wearing level 3 PPE and then go to the next patient wearing level 2 PPE. That’s not a problem so I don’t see why it should be a problem as long as the carer is in the correct PPE.

@CorianderQueen

If she's severe I'm shocked she's in the community and not a home tbh.

Some families refuse nursing home placement for an elderly relatives as it eats up their inheritance if the persons house has to be sold to fund care. Community care is not means tested and is free.

@ChristmasUserName2020

At the hospitals the nurses deal with COVID patients wearing level 3 PPE and then go to the next patient wearing level 2 PPE. That’s not a problem so I don’t see why it should be a problem as long as the carer is in the correct PPE.

We only have level 3 PPE for AGPs in community.

@Retiremental that's not accurate. Residential / nursing home fees are expensive and are means tested.
Social care in the community is also means tested and clients have to pay, though of course someone would not be expected to sell their house to pay for it.
If someone meets the criteria for CHC funding, then their care is funded by the NHS, whether at in the community or in a home, but the threshold is very high, and even someone with end stage dementia may not need it.
NHS input, be it district nursing, therapy etc, is always free because that that the NHS, thank god.

When I meet families at the point of trying to make the difficult decision of placing their relative into a home, financial issues are one of many. And it's fairly rare that I see loss of inheritance as a major driver.

Level 3 PPE is only for aerosol generated procedures other wise we wear level 2 with all patients included covid ones.

@ChristmasUserName2020

At the hospitals the nurses deal with COVID patients wearing level 3 PPE and then go to the next patient wearing level 2 PPE. That’s not a problem so I don’t see why it should be a problem as long as the carer is in the correct PPE.

This is incorrect. Level 3 PPE is for AGPs only. Most nursing of COVID +ve patients is done wearing level 2 PPE.

(Level 3 is not fun to wear for an extended period time. I know this because I’m doing so regularly, as are my team.)

I understand most hospitals don’t have enough side rooms, I’m lucky my hospital does , we’ve still had outbreaks is bays though which is unavoidable. We also now put covid positive patients in bays if they are two weeks post testing positive as there is no other option. Obviously anyone in a bay with a covid positive patient is likely to catch it as patients unlike healthcare workers don’t wear PPE, so there is a much greater risk for elderly in hospital then from home carers.

How about some of you who are knocking carers go and try it yourself for a day. Doubt you would last the day. Its a underpaid understaffed job and we are trying our best. Wearing ppe all day is exhausting and for very long hours.

Covid isnt the only illness people have in hospitals or the community. Siderooms are used for various infections and hopefully end of life care.