Churches somehow protect from COVID?

[Notthemessiah]

Why am I only allowed to meet one person outdoors when my churchgoing nextdoor neighbours can still meet up with all of their religious friends and family indoors?

Fed up with the irrational exemptions given to religion. Why do people's non-provable beliefs give them special treatment and so put everyone else at increased risk?

The communal worship/prayers isn't the same anymore. Read through the previous posts.

I have. I also know what's going on with DM's church. There's not much fellowship to be had through going to church at the moment because of all the rules, and even with the rules there is an increased risk because a lot of different households are meeting in an indoor space.

I just don't think meeting as a congregation is worth the risk in tier 4 at the moment. Any decent church can do fellowship, far beyond the usual few hours a week of communal worship, in much safer ways.

Not that appealing I think you'll agree.

Tickets only for midnight mass sounds sensible but how many churches are doing that and how will they cope if a load of people (possibly drunk) turn up without tickets and demand entry? Lots of churches have faced problems in previous years. But this year there are no pantos, no pubs, no restaurants and lots of people have suddenly been told they can't see their families. Lots of people are determined to salvage whatever they can of christmas and if churches are the only places open then they'd do well to prepare.

Also even the most strictly controlled, ticketed midnight mass services will spread the virus.

[quote hopingforonlychild]@knitnerd90 Is it that hard to get a place? My MIL has somehow managed to get a seat every week (this is a United Shul in Hendon but a quite a small congregation and premises). I am quite envious and wish I could tag along! my synagogue is liberal and we are doing Zoom but its not the same.[/quote]
Depends on how many want to go and the number of slots. I think quite a few people are staying home voluntarily so the competition, as it were, is less than it might be. The times I have been, the number of people was a fraction of what it would be on a typical Shabbat morning.

@LangClegsInSpace Well based on my experience of Yom Kippur (most important day in the year for Jews- there is even a term called Yom Kippur Jews- basically jews who don't observe anything but do come to synagogue for that 1 day a year), only 30 people were allowed in the synagogue when the synagogue is built for 1000 and usually there are at least a few hundred congregants. There are people who pay synagogue membership so they can attend that 1 day (as well as Rosh Hashanah) because often what the synagogue charges for Yom Kippur service is only a bit less than the membership fee. So not being able to go kinda means that a lot of these people (and they are quite a significant minority) have not been able to make any use of their synagogue fee, to put it crudely.

But yet there wasn't anyone demanding to enter the synagogue on any of our holidays. I doubt that many people would be demanding to attend midnight mass without a ticket either.

@LangClegsInSpace as I stated before

"Also, midnight mass services won't be like usual, all lovely and Christmassy. See the previous posts again. Barely anyone allowed in, tickets only, in my church it's only every 3rd pew allowed, masks worn, no singing/carols etc etc. And we're not even having midnight mass. Just a short service on Christmas morning."

No midnight mass. And for a church that can seat 300 there are only 15 tickets.
I'm not sure where all these drunk people are going to be rocking up from either seeing as there are no pubs open. Really, who is going to be drinking enough on Christmas morning and then decide to gate crash the village church?

@Abracadabra12345, even though it's allowed, I'm saying both the church communities in my immediate life have shut anyway, due to wanting people to be safe. I was trying to highlight, to those on the thread who seem to think that churches are running on their own rules, that some of them have made really tough decisions.

Well, the Archbishop of Canterbury has spoken, so ...

(Very few people turned up at my local church today.)

OP - are you angry at the government? Because right now it sounds like you are angry at God, which is interesting.

You clearly don't want to hear about the Covid secure measures that have been taken or the alternatives being used - you really just want to rant and rave because you don't see the purpose of church. Well for many millions of people their faith is an "essential service", and the community of faith is critical to their physical and mental well-being; and the only comfort that many of them have. You are coming across as a bigot, and it isn't a nice look. Good luck to you if all you rely on in life is that which is provable. But you aren't everyone else, and if we can give you credit for being sensible in the supermarket, then give us credit for being sensible in the church. A place of worship is not remotely on a par with hairdressers!

@Moondust001

OP - are you angry at the government? Because right now it sounds like you are angry at God, which is interesting.

You clearly don't want to hear about the Covid secure measures that have been taken or the alternatives being used - you really just want to rant and rave because you don't see the purpose of church. Well for many millions of people their faith is an "essential service", and the community of faith is critical to their physical and mental well-being; and the only comfort that many of them have. You are coming across as a bigot, and it isn't a nice look. Good luck to you if all you rely on in life is that which is provable. But you aren't everyone else, and if we can give you credit for being sensible in the supermarket, then give us credit for being sensible in the church. A place of worship is not remotely on a par with hairdressers!

You can’t be angry at something that you don’t believe exists.

I’m angry that one person’s support system in the form of a fictional deity supersedes another person’s support system in the firm of the creative arts.

@Moondust001

OP - are you angry at the government? Because right now it sounds like you are angry at God, which is interesting.

You clearly don't want to hear about the Covid secure measures that have been taken or the alternatives being used - you really just want to rant and rave because you don't see the purpose of church. Well for many millions of people their faith is an "essential service", and the community of faith is critical to their physical and mental well-being; and the only comfort that many of them have. You are coming across as a bigot, and it isn't a nice look. Good luck to you if all you rely on in life is that which is provable. But you aren't everyone else, and if we can give you credit for being sensible in the supermarket, then give us credit for being sensible in the church. A place of worship is not remotely on a par with hairdressers!

As PP has already said, it's a bit tricky to be angry at something that doesn't exist (as far as I am concerned). I am angry at the government for yet again giving religion special treatment.

Also, as I said previously, I don't especially care about the covid secure measures taken because they aren't pertinent to my point and could equally apply to other settings - theatres, restaurants - that aren't allowed to open anyway.

Equally, why should what you consider to be essential trump what I or other non-believers consider to be essential? Because it's 'faith'? Sorry but that's exactly the special treatment I started this thread about in the first place, so if anything you're just proving my point.

Also, don't think I've ever mentioned hairdressers.

We go to church. We have to pre-book online or via the phone. You can’t just turn up for a seat, there’s someone on the doors with a list. I’d you’re not on the list, you’re not getting in.
I feel safer in the church than I do in shops etc. Everyone is socially distanced, masks are essential and hand sanitizer everywhere.

As a Nurse, I think I’m able to judge the safety well.

Were mosques open for Eid so it's fair? It is a jewish festival atm isn't it? I'm not religious so may be wrong by that but as long as it is fair im not bothered by it.

"Also even the most strictly controlled, ticketed midnight mass services will spread the virus."

This isn't necessarily true. The church I go to, as PP have said, requires pre-booking, very limited numbers attending, carefully spaced - at least 2 metres, masks (100% compliance, with one known exemption, and worn properly, unlike many shops and supermarkets), no singing, no socialising, no wine, well ventilated, thoroughly cleaned, hand gel insisted on on entrance, contact numbers collected. Months ago someone who'd been there tested positive on a routine test on the next Monday. No one else got Covid.

Private citizens can't do much about people gathering on a pavement, whether it's outside a church or anywhere else.

you cant meet anyone in the church so your analogy is rap but i also dont understand your logic you think they should ban more places with low risk not less

"As PP has already said, it's a bit tricky to be angry at something that doesn't exist"

But you don't seem to be angry at the God you don't think exists, you seem to be angry at people who worship. And I think you will find that those people most definitely do exist.

* I meant in general, but I also don't doubt they have pressured the government to make worship an exemption in this instance too.*

As a Christian and church goer, I assure you that that isn’t the case. Churches mostly mostly do online services and have been careful to follow the guidance.

And now, if you want to go to church, they have limited places and you book in advance, so that there can be proper social distancing in place. I don’t go, because there’s no windows and I’m very cautious, as I have long Covid.

That is what happens in the US, though.

In fact, our church had decided to close before the lockdown was announced. Churches often have a disproportionate number of elderly members so do take Covid very seriously.

With a mental health crisis on our hands, and people more reliant on charity than ever - and both of these things getting much worse in 2021 - shutting down places of worship of any faith would be a crazy idea. Foodbank and loads of other charities rely on a massively disproportionate amount of volunteers from faith groups. Religion helps thousands of people with their mental health. Faith groups are very significant in addressing loneliness in our society. This really is not the time to be closing places that, as others have said, seem to take Covid safety more seriously than anywhere else.

Like I said before, notthemessiah, pubs and gyms got "special treatment" early summer when places of worship had to stay closed. Why did the wants of pub goers and gym users trump the wants of religious people then?

This time they have decided that pubs and gyms have to close and places of worship can stay open. It's just the way it is atm .

Restaurants are hardly as safe as places of worship as in restaurants people take their masks off, eat, talk and touch things other people have touched.

@MeringueCloud

Like I said before, notthemessiah, pubs and gyms got "special treatment" early summer when places of worship had to stay closed. Why did the wants of pub goers and gym users trump the wants of religious people then?

This time they have decided that pubs and gyms have to close and places of worship can stay open. It's just the way it is atm .

Restaurants are hardly as safe as places of worship as in restaurants people take their masks off, eat, talk and touch things other people have touched.

Exactly!!

Have you been to a chruch? I go to church on a weekly basis and have to say during mass there is full social distancing. Only every third bench is being used, two households (1-3 people usually) per bench with at least a 4 m distance between households, we also wear masks the full time.

I don't think churches got special treatment. In fact I was able to get my nails and hair done long before I was able to attend a sunday service ...

My mass has also been cut down from a 50 minute service to 20 minute service under the Bishop’s instruction to avoid too much time indoors together (15 on a weekday service). Who goes to the pub/restaurant/theatre for 20 minutes? I think people on here are envisaging a Christmas service with hundreds of people lasting an hour or two.

In reality, with no music, no bidding prayers, no communion wine, or sign of peace etc and churches at a third of capacity it’s going to be more like 30 mins at absolute tops. All
completely masked, sanitised, ticketed, contact traced and socially distanced.

Theatres and music are important to a lot of people's mental health too but they arent excempt.

@klaerntrapetor how is "music" exempt?

It's not that's what I said.