To think there would be less of a housing crisis if people stopped buying second homes!

[Okunoshima]

Before anyone says anything, I understand that some people have second homes as private rentals and understand the need for rental properties

What I'm talking about is people buying second homes as holiday homes to live in on weekends/holidays/lend out to their friends.

Where I live there are a huge number of houses used solely for this purpose, and a lot of these houses are 2 beds that would make great homes for couples or families to occupy permanently. Instead they sit empty most of the time, while residents are left with the option of trying to buy (not affordable for many) or trying to find something in the tiny pool of private rentals available.

I don't understand why people can't just use hotels/B&Bs etc. They would be contributing to the local economy by doing so, and creating employment.

Of course they don't Katy. If you had one and were hoping to retire at least partly on what you got from selling it, would you? Everyone, even the sainted virtue-signallers, HAS to consider their own interests.

And, actually, it's very important that people do what is best financially for them. The better you succeed, the less you will need from the state, which is all of us.

@katy1213

Funny how the locals never say, 'No, I won't sell my desirable seaside cottage at an inflated price to some city dweller seeking a holiday home. I'll knock down the price to a deserving young local couple instead.'

Often they can't, because they need to fund where they are moving to.

Going back to the issue about families not wanting tiny cottages. I don’t think the answer to this is ‘anything is better than a tiny flat.’ In many cases, these tiny holiday lets are much smaller than a ‘tiny flat’ if you look at floor space, and not do I see families living in ‘tiny flats’ in these places; they simply move away, like my relatives.

They wouldn’t go back and live in a reduced price tiny holiday cottage, moving away has given them detached houses, multiple bathrooms gardens, etc. They simply no longer want to live in Cornwall.

"On Rightmove there are loads of houses up for sale. There is not a lack of houses for sale. The problem is many can't pay a sizeable deposit. So people buying second homes are not depriving others from getting one it is their lack of deposit/earning capacity that stops them. Stop blaming others for your lack of deposit when they are doing nothing wrong".

⬆️ This!

I agree with others who've said that hotels and B&Bs are generally not desirable.

They're ok if all you need is place to rest your head for the night but they never have any opening windows, balconies, private outdoor spaces etc. and you've got the grim breakfast lounge to contend with too.

I much prefer to stay in a house.

I personally feel people should have second homes wherever they want... but should rent them out when they’re not going to be there. Airbnb etc. No point these beautiful houses only being used a few weeks a year.

I’ve always dreamed of owning multiple homes. A Swiss chalet being one. Definitely would go halves with a good friend/ family member and just share it, so it’s being used more.
A villa in Spain would be lovely! Again wouldn’t mind sharing it or doing a time share- few weeks a year would be enough for me.

@Vinyl, but there could be categories. If your sale price is above £500k, you can sell to a buyer outwith your region. Beneath it, the buyer must be from an in-county post code. I am trying to eliminate buyers who want to buy starter homes as holiday homes.

[quote XingMing]@Vinyl, but there could be categories. If your sale price is above £500k, you can sell to a buyer outwith your region. Beneath it, the buyer must be from an in-county post code. I am trying to eliminate buyers who want to buy starter homes as holiday homes.[/quote]
It’s a good idea in theory but wouldn’t it just inflate prices even further as people looked for ways round it? You’d have to set the bar substantially lower than £500k.

Yanbu. It’s a big problem. I don’t think it’s so much families buying a single second home though, as it is that for decades UK property has been seen as a safe investment with a guaranteed return. This is particularly the case now with our currency so low post-Brexit, I know some Europeans are buying UK property to rent out just because our prices are now so low in Euros/dollars that it’s “rude not to”. So investors (especially overseas investors looking for a safe place for money eg Russian / Middle East millionaires) buy properties, rent them out and don’t look after them, thus reducing the number available for purchase => inflating property purchase prices thus making more people have to rent => more renters looking to rent, which makes property an even safer investment, etc etc. Without strict regulation, the market naturally separates into landlords and tenants (like in Victorian times, or even feudal times). Historically the period of time in which the working/middle classes could expect to own a home was actually quite a short period of time.

In some countries overseas people aren’t allowed to purchase land, it can only be sold to that country’s citizens. Works better imo. If the law was changed so eg you can only buy UK property if you are a UK resident and don’t already have more than one property, that would improve things a lot.

But sensible helpful policies are not what UK politicians are for unfortunately.

Yes, I recognise my arbitrary line might keep a nurse from moving from eg Northampton to west Devon. Rules are always a bit thick-edged.

Historically the period of time in which the working/middle classes could expect to own a home was actually quite a short period of time.
This is often overlooked on Mumsnet where they cry for the days of "buying a house on one average wage". Not for most people most of the time.

@Vinyl, I hear what you say about the price threshold, but it has to be high enough to stop wealthy incomers/investors scooping up all the lower priced property on the market. Here in my village, there is, I'm told, an American Londoner who thinks this is the next Port Wenn, and is steadily buying almost anything that costs less than £300k, in the short term for Air BnB lets.

Inside 18 months, that is going to be catastrophic for local services like health care and residential care, where wages are low.

TBH most second homes are very grand, and are out of reach financially for most first time buyers. I don’t think there’s a shortage of homes for the middle classes, but mainly for people on low incomes, so taking second homes out of the equation is really not going to help the people who are really struggling for housing on the first rung.

@Skysblue

Yanbu. It’s a big problem. I don’t think it’s so much families buying a single second home though, as it is that for decades UK property has been seen as a safe investment with a guaranteed return. This is particularly the case now with our currency so low post-Brexit, I know some Europeans are buying UK property to rent out just because our prices are now so low in Euros/dollars that it’s “rude not to”. So investors (especially overseas investors looking for a safe place for money eg Russian / Middle East millionaires) buy properties, rent them out and don’t look after them, thus reducing the number available for purchase => inflating property purchase prices thus making more people have to rent => more renters looking to rent, which makes property an even safer investment, etc etc. Without strict regulation, the market naturally separates into landlords and tenants (like in Victorian times, or even feudal times). Historically the period of time in which the working/middle classes could expect to own a home was actually quite a short period of time.

In some countries overseas people aren’t allowed to purchase land, it can only be sold to that country’s citizens. Works better imo. If the law was changed so eg you can only buy UK property if you are a UK resident and don’t already have more than one property, that would improve things a lot.

But sensible helpful policies are not what UK politicians are for unfortunately.

Yes, my db wasn't allowed to buy property In Thailand but he did reside their for several years

@XingMing we don't often agree so I appreciate your thoughts thank you.

because intelligence is largely an inherited element, regardless of what teachers say

I totally agree! And I speak as someone blessed with that type of intelligence myself (well to a point!) but I'm certainly aware of friends and family who have been done a great disservice by how the education system works in this country and has since the 80's!

People who are extremely talented artists, musicians, tradespeople, mechanics, hairdressers, carers, support workers etc who's aptitudes and abilities are not valued. Yet who contribute just as much to our society as teachers, drs, lawyers etc (I would argue of more use than sodding investment bankers in most cases!)

There are of course other factors affecting ability to make the most of our education system. My own dd left school early due to the schools appalling lack of support around the fact she has a disability which unfortunately during her first exam year landed her in hospital a few times totally unpredictably and unavoidably. Instead of helping a child who was previously on course for high marks and who teachers had confidently said would likely have her pick of unis to catch up on what she missed and support her in her return to school after weeks off not through any fault of her own they treated her like a truant! To my shame I was even sceptical myself how bad it was until one teacher spectacularly lost the temper with me in quite a shocking and unprofessional way! With hindsight I should have kicked up a Merry stink but dd wasn't up for it and I was in bad health myself at the time (which the school also knew). She has now after several years out of education returned to it and is doing very well so far.

But many would have been completely put off by what she went through and not even considered a return to education.

We see that on these boards all the time too, people who were badly treated at school even by the school and it's totally put them off education.

So I slightly disagree on "rule themselves out of the game early by age 14, playing truant and ignoring the potential gain of education" I know and have spoken with many who gave that appearance of "not caring" when in fact what was happening was lack of support - either within the education system (I have one friend who is dyslexic not dx until their 20's who "failed" at school, their partner having a sibling with dyslexia noticed certain things and encouraged them to pursue a potential dx. She has since qualified as a bio-chemist and is now helping develop medicines for a major pharmaceutical company) or within home life. Very very few kids truant purely out of mischievousness.

But ultimately, the attitude your parents teach you is more important than anything else

again that can be a tricky issue.

My parents are very pro education despite having had to leave at age 14 themselves being from very poor working class backgrounds and both being the eldest child, their families needed them to be earning as soon as possible and even a-levels let alone a degree seemed something "for others not meant for us" but they were raised by parents who also valued education and were very widely read and informed themselves as best they could from the sources available to them.

On the other hand both my fathers childhood and then by repeating of history my and my siblings too were also informed by abuse, control and addiction. And people's response to this varies even within the same family differs.

I wanted out ASAP and so left school at 16 with few GCSEs not because I was incapable but because it was impossible to get peace to study at home and because I was barely sleeping or eating due to the stress. I found a job that enabled me to leave home at 17 and then went to night classes to get my a-levels.

My brother and sister chose different paths but certainly influenced by what we experienced at home.

This isn't something unique to the UK, either. Which makes me think it's not something that can be pinned on one particular political party. It's to do with the economic environment and larger policy trends across the developed world.

I think you mean "capitalism" which even leading economists and future population needs experts are saying is unsustainable.

@katy1213 the sellers have to at least cover their costs (as set by govt and banks etc) and if locals can no longer afford to buy in an area chances are they're unlikely to get a buyer within the local population

@CountessFrog but the reasons why they no longer wish to live in Cornwall is usually due to lack of jobs, good schools etc which is as a result of things like 2nd homes taking over in such areas. Plus not everyone is suited to or wants to work in the tourist and hospitality industries, which are largely seasonal in the Uk anyway.

I've lived in very popular tourist areas and do again now, the employment and training opportunities are virtually non existent and this issue has been compounded by the govt cuts to LA funding and investment.

@JustoldLondonme you really need to read the full thread and especially the responses to that comment you quoted! It's woefully narrow minded and ill informed

@PerfidiousAlbion but why should your holiday preferences (which can be dealt with if you put some effort in to be honest) trump the damage to the economies and people that live in the tourist areas?

Properly planned and implemented social housing development and investment in such communities would go SOME way to mitigating the problems but not totally

@Skysblue I agree there certainly needs to be far more stringent and restrictive legislation on non Uk buyers buying property then leaving it sat permanently empty as an "investment" which depletes the number of Uk homes available. They often don't even maintain their "investment" properly and the property becomes derelict and in disrepair which depending on type of property - particularly the case with flats - can impact on the maintenance of others property/homes too!

Frankly it should be outlawed but if not they should have to pay a whack of tax

1 to deter such behaviour

2 to provide funds to mitigate the problems they cause from building maintenance issues to the lack of a home being available

The almost complete lack of regulation of the rental market is a whole other thread! "Accidental" landlords in particular are a major problem. Personally I would make being a landlord a profession requiring certification and passing of an exam to ensure they understand their rights and responsibilities. As it stands any fool can become a landlord!

so taking second homes out of the equation is really not going to help the people who are really struggling for housing on the first rung

But it would because it would free up homes for 2nd/3rd/4th time buyers freeing up their properties for 1st/2nd/3rd time buyers lower on the rung - it's all linked

@Graphista, actually I think we agree on most of the problems, but less often on the solutions .

Yes that's probably an accurate summation Xing

Also @Graphista, your DD's treatment was shabby to criminal, and I am delighted to know that she has regained enough confidence to give education a second go. I am sure she will do well.

@Graphista i have read thread!

I left home at 18 from a very physically abusive home. A mum with MH issues and a Dad brought up in a Christian Brothers ' care home'. Needless. to say my childhood opportunities were nil!

I left home at 18 and had a full time job. I lived in manky studio flats and manky house shares. I worked 8am to 5.30pm. I then. took on a
second job 6pm-9pm. I worked 15 hours a day. 75 hours a week. It took me 5 yrs of working 75 hrs a week and living on cornflakes and porridge and 2 consecutive jobs to save my deposit to buy my first home.

It was then , after 6 yrs, I married and planned my first child. By which time, i had upgraded and bought a larger house, on my own and in my name.

Buying a home and saving for deposits can be done. If you are not born to privilege, it just takes a lot more work, sacrifice and planning.

@Graphista every property i have owned i have owned in my own right.

It all started in the 90's from my 2 jobs and working 75hrs pw. I have a huge home now and i continue to work 2 jobs now.

Home ownership is ultimately about work and family planning. I planned my family , once i had my home . I appreciate this will not be popular but i did not start a family until i had a family home.

It took me 16 yrs to secure my housing before i had children.

I was 33 when i had my first child and my housing had long since been secured by me.

And yes i have a second home, a place for me to relax and watch the sea. An investment for my children and a holiday home for us. I have worked hard to be able to enjoy this now.