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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there would be less of a housing crisis if people stopped buying second homes!

264 replies

Okunoshima · 18/12/2020 16:42

Before anyone says anything, I understand that some people have second homes as private rentals and understand the need for rental properties

What I'm talking about is people buying second homes as holiday homes to live in on weekends/holidays/lend out to their friends.

Where I live there are a huge number of houses used solely for this purpose, and a lot of these houses are 2 beds that would make great homes for couples or families to occupy permanently. Instead they sit empty most of the time, while residents are left with the option of trying to buy (not affordable for many) or trying to find something in the tiny pool of private rentals available.

I don't understand why people can't just use hotels/B&Bs etc. They would be contributing to the local economy by doing so, and creating employment.

OP posts:
AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 18/12/2020 22:44

Can I just ask what the solution is then? Yes building more social housing but I feel this should be on brownfield sites, a lot of the housing estates going up around me are on greenfield which makes me so mad. Not only because of the risks to established wildlife etc but also because I chose to live in the countryside somewhere where I am not staring into rows of other people kitchens

TheRealBoswell · 18/12/2020 22:49

I hope I don’t sound too obtuse, but what I don’t understand is that if people buying second homes is having a negative effect on the local community as services are reduced, schools shutting down etc due to a decrease in demand...surely this means that house prices would go down? Who would want to even spend holidays in a town/village when nothing is functioning? Wouldn’t that be a poor investment?

Graphista · 18/12/2020 22:52

It's generally people who never lived in them that denigrate the social housing of the past.

My family were moved from what were literally slums into a well known "scheme" here in Scotland in the 50's.

Such schemes came to have reputations as "rough" etc yet all my relatives especially the older ones were thankful to have decent housing with things like running hot and cold water when previously they'd had outdoor shared privys and cold water only in the one room gable end the whole family lived in!

I well remember visiting those homes and yes recognising they weren't quite as nice as our family home but that the differences were mainly cosmetic and that the communities were very supportive of each other and were actual communities which is a rarity now!

They all knew their neighbours and helped each other out in various ways.

I only really learned the place my grandparents lived was supposedly "tough" as a teen, I always felt safe there and the women had no issues eg walking home late at night from the bus stop after a night out. The one time someone was mugged it was in a posh part of the city!

I've seen this pattern repeated across the country where things are culturally different (supposedly) where the poorer "rough" parts of an area are mainly denigrated by those with no real experience of them!

We have major issues with the lack of affordable housing overall.

A pp mentioned that no govts since thatcher have improved things - respectfully I say they have been fooled into thinking we've ever had even a left of centre govt in that time!

We've been ruled by right or at least centre right govt since 1979 - its time for a change

woodhill · 18/12/2020 22:57

@Chailatte20

I'd ban overseas investors buying prime London property & leave them empty. There are streets in West/central London with empty properties bought as investment cleaning dodgy cash or as seasonal holiday homes.

Local people are completely priced out of London generally. If I didn't buy my property 15 yrs ago there's no way I'd be able to afford to buy now.

Definitely, it does drive prices up
NoMoreDucksToGive · 18/12/2020 22:58

Yes second homes are a huge social issue but they're also an environmental one. The UK has lost 97% of its wildflower meadows in the last 70 years, 60% of most wildlife populations have been lost since 1970. The government has set targets of 300,000 new properties a year to support demand...if we could make use of empty properties and redevelop brownfield sites we could lower our impact on the natural world. I live rurally (where there are a lot of contentious second home owners) and they are throwing up houses on greenfield sites, ripping out hedges and losing important habitat.

We wouldn't own a second home for environmental reasons - we should all be trying to lessen our footprints and make room for nature to thrive. There have been plenty of warnings from scientists about the decline of nature being a cause of pandemics.

Graphista · 18/12/2020 23:02

@AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii there is not only a huge amount of holiday homes and houses that are bought and are left not even used as holiday homes but also homes that are lying in disrepair purely because it's of no huge profit to private builders and developers to bring them up to standard.

The govts own figures show there are over 600,000 unoccupied homes in England alone currently.

That fig doesn't include the 250,000 odd holiday homes

So that's already over 850,000 homes in England alone not being used or made available to families who desperately need them.

The figure also doesn't include those which are currently uninhabitable but which could be made so with even a little investment.

So it's not even necessary particularly to build on greenfield sites.

Investment is also needed on certain brownfield sites to make them viable development options but neither the developers nor the govt (which as I mentioned earlier contains a lot of mos that are developers/landowners) are willing to put the investment in.

There's also a lot of snobbery against flats. We're a small country there isn't a lot of land so building up the way makes perfect sense and can and should be done in such a way as is safe, healthy and creates good communities.

There was a documentary on last year I think? George Clarke's council house scandal that had some interesting points.

I am by no means an expert on the subject but there are experts out there who are rightly pointing out the corruption, poor policies and policy making, lack of enforcement of current policies and lack of political will to address this

tectonicplates · 18/12/2020 23:04

@TheRealBoswell

I hope I don’t sound too obtuse, but what I don’t understand is that if people buying second homes is having a negative effect on the local community as services are reduced, schools shutting down etc due to a decrease in demand...surely this means that house prices would go down? Who would want to even spend holidays in a town/village when nothing is functioning? Wouldn’t that be a poor investment?
They are being bought by people with more money than the locals, so they offer above the asking price so as to get accepted and be able to buy it above someone else. And they only tend to stay for a week or so, so they stop off at a supermarket on the way to buy a week's worth of food.
TransplantedScouser · 18/12/2020 23:05

This couple has a four bed detached house / maybe we don’t need it....

We bought it because I am a keen cook and wanted a large kitchen - you don’t get them in three bed houses

Ground floor:

Kitchen - large and very used

Dining room + conservatory - used daily and main living area with lazy boy style chairs in front of 55 inch tv.

Front room - used for “together” nights ie where I’m not knitting and he’s not faffing, 75inch tv, surround sound and a big reclining sofa. Fill in the blanks.

Upstairs:

Bathroom - well walk in shower as we have a hot tub so I took out the bath

Bedroom 4 - office - I’ve always worked from home a lot

Bedroom 3 - set up for my disabled mother - saves me having to rearrange stuff when she comes to visit

Bedroom 2 - guest room

Bedroom 1 and on suite - our

Because we have the space our house is near, tidy and looks like a show home

Why should we have to use less space just because there is only two of us

Hurtandupset2 · 18/12/2020 23:09

I think the councils selling off their housing stock under 'right to buy' is a bigger contributer than people buying 2nd homes.

It was a ridiculous idea that should never have been allowed and should now be withdrawn where it hasn't already.

hardknocklife123 · 18/12/2020 23:13

Sorry tell me how second homes causes this problem? Genuine question.

VestaTilley · 18/12/2020 23:16

Agree. Too many people want a bolt hole in the West Country that they can call their own and go down to at the drop of a hat in fine weather. I can quite understand that desire, but it’s really so unfair on locals who get prices out.

Politicians should’ve stamped it out years ago. It didn’t affect things too badly when it was just a handful of toffs doing it, but now it’s every second suburban boomer with a decent salary it has completely screwed the rural and coastal property market. It needs to end.

HateIsNotGood · 18/12/2020 23:29

My NDNs on one side are very nice but it's just a bolthole for them - it's another home. Whilst I appreciate the benefits of having NDNs who aren't there most of the time.

I think it's a proper shame that yet another house in one of the cheapest areas to live round here, doesn'thave a local family/resident living in it full-time.

West Country - North Devon.

Graphista · 18/12/2020 23:40

@TransplantedScouser because you don't NEED all that space and the house you're living in could easily house a family of 5 minimum!

All you actually NEED is:

A main bedroom, a decent sized guest room that is suitable for your mother, a normal bathroom perhaps with adjustments for your mother, a dining room designed to be flexible to be used as an office in the Daytime, a living room, a normal sized kitchen.

All that you have you are very fortunate to have and I can understand the wants you describe but they are wants, luxuries and when you consider there are whole families living in one room in b&bs or even shipping containers then yes, such profligacy is offensive.

Politicians should’ve stamped it out years ago politicians own/profit from the fact they didn't - personally profit!

SchrodingersImmigrant · 18/12/2020 23:55

Well, having separate bedrooms is a want too, not a need so theoretically by that logic the house should be rented to (because owning is a want, not need too) to a family of at least 7 (2 adults and 5 children expecting one of the bedrooms to be just a single). Otherwise it's still underused.

TransplantedScouser · 18/12/2020 23:57

But I can pay for it so why the fuck should I not be able to buy it

No one else on 20K a year is going to be able to

TransplantedScouser · 18/12/2020 23:59

Do I have to live in a shit tip because there's no where to put stuff? All the guest rooms have built in wardrobes which store stuff

I earn 120K a year and DH 65K a year - we have no kids

Tell me why new shouldn't live as we want to

HateIsNotGood · 19/12/2020 00:03

I don't blame anyone - not the better off, like NDNs able to buy 2 homes, nor the local people who 'sold' to the highest bidder, nor any politician.

It just is what it is - and mostly I'm thankful I've a a proper house to live in, with some mortgage but no Landlord to oversee me.

I think there's probably enough houses already to make sure that everyone has a Home. But whilst having more than one home is normalized, as is the situation now, we'll never have enough homes for all of us.

Snackasaurus · 19/12/2020 00:03

@TransplantedScouser You don't need to justify yourself! Your house sounds AMAZING and it sounds like you work hard for it! Xmas Smile

TransplantedScouser · 19/12/2020 00:06

@Snackasaurus

because we should have hair shirts and feel guilty because we have space

TransplantedScouser · 19/12/2020 00:07

Tell me how to get a big kitchen in a three bed and ill talk to you

SoWhatNo · 19/12/2020 00:10

YA kind of NBU in that the housing crisis is driven by financial inequality and that some people being easily able to have two, three or more homes while others have none is a symptom of that. But YABU to think that the people who deploy their excess capital in this way are to blame.

What is to blame is structural inequality which is not going to be remedied any time soon.

Houses aren't expensive because they're in short supply. There are plenty of houses for everyone. They are expensive because over the last forty years due to various mechanisms some deliberate some incidental property ownership has become a wealth cementing vehicle and rentiership impecunity has become the default state for the ever increasing non property owning class.

VinylDetective · 19/12/2020 00:11

[quote TransplantedScouser]@Snackasaurus

because we should have hair shirts and feel guilty because we have space[/quote]
I haven’t noticed anyone trying to make you feel guilty. Why are you so defensive? It beats me why someone would boast about their “show home” on a thread where the theme is the injustice inherent in our housing system.

Graphista · 19/12/2020 01:17

Wow! That's quite some reaction to the suggestion you live as many many other families do!

"Where will I put all my stuff then?!"

Quite possibly one of the most tone deaf, entitled, ivory tower comments I've seen on mn for some time!

Highly unlikely you work particularly harder than many in lower paid even nmw jobs, are they less deserving of a secure comfortable home?

The land your home is on I'm fairly sure could potentially actually be utilised to house several families if it were demolished and flats were built on it - I didn't go that far!

You don't need a 4 bed home for 2 people you just don't! It's ridiculous! It's a waste of space and as other pps (more knowledgable than I on this) that's an environmental as well as moral waste too.

As a species those of us in wealthier countries need to stop focusing on and treating wants as needs to the detriment of all of us.

I only need a studio with a shower room and a small kitchen space. I'd be perfectly willing and happy to live in such a set up, I have searched in vain for one suitable for me and am blocked mainly by age - many of these type of properties are reserved either for students or people over 55 and there aren't many of them available at all. I'm making an educated guess that the reason is because they're not particularly profitable! I haven't even only looked in one area! I have looked across the whole country because I am able and willing to move and having been a forces dependent for many years I have friends and relatives all over the country so I'm also in the fortunate position that I would have someone I knew nearby pretty much in any county.

A pp mentioned that divorce was a factor in the housing crisis, I'm guessing perhaps they mean as in 2 parents where a child is occupying a bedroom in each home, but it's also because people are unwilling to allow children even if very young and the same sex to share rooms even when a child is present on a temporary basis.

I have many happy memories of sharing bedrooms with siblings and cousins and friends and visitors. Yes there are annoyances too but that is part of life.

People now seem completely focused on the down sides of such arrangements and often oblivious to the pluses.

It beats me why someone would boast about their “show home” on a thread where the theme is the injustice inherent in our housing system.

Pretty odd isn't it?

I've been homeless, I've been extremely grateful to have the most basic accommodation, the best housing I was in was when overseas with my ex and living in accommodation that was being "lent" to the armed forces but which was built and originally intended as social housing for the civilian communities where we were living at that time, in countries where at the time of building these properties the perception was very much that they were a far worse off country and people than we in the Uk yet I can assure you these were spacious, well designed and comfortable homes when I was living in them 40 odd years after they were built!

I think the British need also to learn not to trust or automatically believe what they are told about how life is in other countries. Much of what we are told is total nonsense!

There have been some very interesting threads on here in recent times where some of the assumptions even myths about life, including the quality of housing, taxation etc in other countries has been corrected.

We need to be much more curious, less naive and more open to ideas from other countries who ARE doing things better than we are (I would argue this isn't bloody difficult at the moment but many would disagree I know)

If the political will were present we COULD build/develop much more and good quality social housing, this would likely in time reduce private market prices without necessarily putting owners into negative equity, we could build not just housing but communities, infrastructure, a country we could genuinely be proud of!

But while we are governed (by all parties) by people who won't vote against their own self interest and that of their close families because they are land and property owners, developers and landlords we cannot hope to achieve this.

We need representatives who actually care about ordinary people who are working very hard in low paid jobs, who are providing services we ALL need, who are part of our society and have as much value as the rich.

While we continue to elect MPs who were almost all privately educated, went to elite universities and "studied" ppe and similar, who then went to work at 'daddy's friends PR firm for a bit' And then went into similarly connected roles at Westminster and then stood as MP candidates without at ANY time gaining ANY real experience of the policies enacted that affect ordinary people, who wouldn't be able to tell you the price of a pint of milk or loaf of bread we won't get anywhere with addressing the inequalities in our society that negatively affect ALL of us (perhaps barring the top stream of the upper classes to which many of these MPs belong!).

It's plain criminal that in a wealthy country we have families living in shipping containers, disabled people dying in street doorways, children going hungry on a continuing basis, diseases caused by malnourishment rising, unicef stepping in to feed our children...

So yes I do find it ridiculous and offensive that a couple think it necessary and acceptable to live in a large 4 bed property when they have no need of it.

caringcarer · 19/12/2020 01:33

@graphista, I did not say the poor were to blame. Simply that without a deposit they will not get a mortgage, which you also know to be true. Without a deposit a person can not buy a home so if someone who dies have a deposit buys it it makes no difference to a person without a deposit because they won't get a mortgage anyway.

2020canfuckitself · 19/12/2020 01:42

Agreed. My ex in laws buy up small properties in North wales and rent them out as holiday homes. Last count they had over 20.
By in laws I mean the whole family, they all do it

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