To think there would be less of a housing crisis if people stopped buying second homes!

[Okunoshima]

Before anyone says anything, I understand that some people have second homes as private rentals and understand the need for rental properties

What I'm talking about is people buying second homes as holiday homes to live in on weekends/holidays/lend out to their friends.

Where I live there are a huge number of houses used solely for this purpose, and a lot of these houses are 2 beds that would make great homes for couples or families to occupy permanently. Instead they sit empty most of the time, while residents are left with the option of trying to buy (not affordable for many) or trying to find something in the tiny pool of private rentals available.

I don't understand why people can't just use hotels/B&Bs etc. They would be contributing to the local economy by doing so, and creating employment.

I think with buy to let though the government needs to come down on those who are not paying capital gains or declaring 2 nd properties, council tax etc. I read somewhere certain people were not honest with their tax returns and it is a problem

There are two separate issues really. There, are second homes that are bought as a holiday home and not lived in all year round and maybe occasionally you let your friends stay in it, but most of the time it is empty. Those houses contribute practically nothing to the local community except for a few weeks in summer.

One lovely house round here went for £650K. The owners won't live here as "there is not enough to do", yet it is ok for a few weeks holiday. That house was previously a family home and local business.

There are the holiday lets, that are let out all year round. They can bring in money by local cleaners being employed, and the visitors eat out in the pubs and go to the local tourist attractions. Tax is paid on the income brought in. But they still don't contribute to community life, they don't put kids in the schools and keep the pubs open in winter.

All of them combined though, just drive up the prices. The local village I mentioned earlier, tiny cottages go for thousands of pounds. This is a rural farming area. The young couples can't afford to buy and end up moving out of the villages. As I said before, the villages die out eventually.

I remember being in Cornwall, I can't remember if it was Port Talbot, or Polperro, but literally every cottage on the road down to the harbour, had a sign in the window saying "Cottage for holiday Let". These villages were small fishing communities full of locals, but as each house comes up for sale, the locals just can't afford to buy there.

@VinylDetective

If house prices were not health/crashed, mortgage companies wouldn't lend, investors woukd snap up property and let it out, thus pushing prices back to reality

History doesn’t bear that theory out. When the house market crashed in the early 1990s lenders were offering 100% mortgages. All they’re bothered about is ability to pay, they don’t give a shit about people being in negative equity.

Looks like they learned from it as they are not doing it now and they didn't after 2008 either. You are right though. They don't care about people being in negative equity. They do, however, care about their security asset being less than the loan, because what are realistic prospects of getting the rst from people who lose home.

@Teakind

I do see your point but second homes also provide jobs in the area, such as employing local tradespeople to do them up and eating in local restaurants.

The owners also pay council tax but won't be there all the time using the services.

Also, where do you draw the line? Should a single person in a 4 bed home have to sell because a family would need the space more?

You know what creates more jobs in an area than second homes? Permanent residents. Because permanent residents also do up their houses and eat out, but they use local services and shops all year round.

Port Talbot is in Wales, not Cornwall.

Or possibly look at controlling the growth in population. You can tinker with supply all you want but if demand keeps rocketing, nothing will change.

WRT contributing to the community. I’m buying a holiday let in the south west. I’m from Cornwall originally, I plan to retire back there in ten years.

I was on another thread where I was labelled ‘patronising’ because I want to donate a fixed percentage of any profit from my letting business to a local school until I retire there. Once I retire, o plan to volunteer my professional skills in school (high demand profession).

But apparently this is patronising.

Can’t win really. I’ll be employing a housekeeper for the next ten years, too.

CountessFrog I meant Port Isaac . I knew that I mustn't say Port Wenn and got all confused with my Port's.

At least with your holiday cottage you would be contributing something to the community and paying tax on the income, if you are letting it out year round and employing somebody to look after it, that is better than a second home that is rarely used. If you provide your guests with a welcome pack, then presumably you will be buying from local businesses. (I have clients who provide local honey, milk, eggs, scones etc). (but obviously it still doesn't bring kids or families into the village).

I can't believe that you were called patronising for wanting to donate profits to a local school. Most schools would bite your hand off for a donation like that. I think that would actually be a lovely thing to do.

This sort of second homes usually lead the the area becoming too expensive for local people to afford to live in the area they were born or raised in. Guernsey has the right idea,. 2 tiers of sale one to locals and a few to be on the open market.

While I think second homes are a scourge on pretty villages in pleasant countryside, there are houses (two locally have been sold, for nearly £2m each this year) which are very clearly outside the normal. I think Guernsey restricts off-islanders to buying properties above a minimum threshold price, and they set it very high. I would not have a problem if Cornwall Council said that you could buy a house for £1m plus. It's the little cottages which young families would otherwise buy that I dislike seeing sold to out of area buyers who want a country bolt hole or a holiday let to leave empty. Despite thinking about it for years, I haven't figured out a solution. If I do, I will be back to tell everyone... loudly.

@BLToutanowhere

Or possibly look at controlling the growth in population. You can tinker with supply all you want but if demand keeps rocketing, nothing will change.

The UK birth rate is the lowest it’s been for decades. We’re not even replacing ourselves now.

Second homeowners aren't your problem.
It's grabby multiple property owning, get rich quick landlords that are part of your problem. The other part of your problem are holiday cottage giants who seem to snap up so many properties before anyone else can get a look in.

It's very a densely populated in the SE.

The UK birth rate is the lowest it’s been for decades. We’re not even replacing ourselves now.

Maybe that's not so bad thing. Couple of generations and house crises is no more...
Actually quite surprised at the 1.65 rate with how many times I've seen people here talking about having 4 and more kids.

@caringcarer you said

No good blaming others if you don't have enough for a deposit.

Which is in effect blaming the poor for their inability to buy a house! When they have very little if any power over the fact! The “others” that are to blame and yes hold responsibility for this include the govt, employers who pay piddling wages, banks who set unreasonable mortgage and deposit rates, all companies who’s practices have an effect on the cost of living generally... so yes others are to blame!

Also others being able to buy does have an effect on renters too, if more people are able to find and buy suitable housing that frees up rental properties (private and social) for others, it’s all intrinsically linked

@irisheyesrsmiling - that wouldn’t surprise me re holiday homes causing 2 families a loss of housing

I agree not wanting to stay in a b&b or hotel while on holiday is a ridiculous reason! They are far from the only options and they are hardly a trying thing to have to do! The snobbery on this is shocking!

However, I don't believe the housing crisis is as bad as people make out. We have moved house 4 times and not struggled to find something (&each time sold a smaller house, leaving something further down the chain).

Wow! Have you done ANY reading o the matter or even so much as glanced at a news report?!

I am disabled and in social housing, it took me 8 years to get this place even though I had a high number of “points” for assessment as to where on the “list” I was.

This time last year shelter calculated there were approx 280,000 people homeless in England alone. I dread to think what the situation is now with covid redundancies etc!

I’ve been homeless more than once, it sucks! It’s frightening and makes you feel bloody worthless!

Maybe you could do some research instead of relying on your own privileged experience? Of course you haven’t struggled, you’ve got money.

Quite!!!

Only because if extreme hard work

Not true.

You were born fit and healthy enough TO work, to renovate at least one home and academically able enough to be able to attend and graduate from university. There are millions for whom this is not the case but who work just as hard in low paid jobs.

A big problem is families not staying together. Going round having kids and not staying in the relationship means more houses are needed

Good grief!

Are you seriously suggesting we return to a society where people stay in miserable marriages “for the sake of the kids” or worse stay in relationships where they’re being abused?!

I agree people (particularly NRPs who are usually men!) need to be more considerate of the impact of their having multiple children with multiple resident parents while they do just about fuck all if not actually fuck all to provide for them - but again this govt facilitates such behaviour. Resident parents (usually mothers) are expected to and “encouraged” to limit the amount of children they have, via various caps on support, lack of affordable childcare etc... meanwhile nrps can have children with many other partners and face no such sanctions for doing so and aren’t even fully and thoroughly pursued for the pittance of child maintenance they’re supposed to pay.

@vinyldetective thank you for your post at 1005.

It’s very much a case of “there but by the grace of god” I ‘worked hard’ from the age of 16 excepting when I went to uni and mat leave. Life can turn on you!

It can take one piece of bad luck or a series of bad luck that can land you without a home and dependent on the kindness of strangers and whatever there is of the welfare state (which is a LOT harder to access without an address!)

In my case a combination of divorce, a major car accident and the impact of those adding to a traumatic childhood background leading to a nervous breakdown from which I’ve never really recovered.

In others it can be bereavement, becoming disabled or sick from other reasons, redundancy, being a victim of crime...

Unless you are independently wealthy in the way the likes of Cameron, Johnson, Rees-Mogg and even the royal family are then you aren’t totally immune from such things having a devastated impact on you and your family.

And as you rightly say the young now are having a horrific time of it with insultingly low wages and high living costs in the Uk, it’s unsustainable! People need to earn enough to live on! The current nmw is just about enough for a single person to live on IF they live in the cheapest parts of the country (where there are sod all jobs, homes, public transport etc anyway!) and certainly not enough to live on in the most expensive parts of the country (which I hate to break it to you Londoners is not the reserve of London!)

It’s an utterly ludicrous state of affairs!

It’s not even good for the economy as a whole because when the working class and even lower middle class don’t have spare cash or are afraid to spend except on necessities they do exactly that - stop spending! Which is what several on this thread are advocating actually in order to enable people to get “on the housing ladder”.

To think that local families want to bring up children in tiny nineteenth century cottages without gardens? I struggle to live in one for a week.

Do you really think that families currently living in one room in a homelessness b&b CARE about having a garden?! What a very Ivory tower view! MILLIONS of families have and are raising children in homes without gardens perfectly well! My parents and all their siblings, around half of their children and my dd and my dns all have been raised without gardens! Some people really have no idea how others live eh?

if you haven’t got a home you’re not fussy about having a garden.

I read somewhere certain people were not honest with their tax returns and it is a problem I can’t tell if that’s possibly the sweetest but most naive comment on the thread or if it’s sarcasm?

Loads of people aren’t paying their taxes! This govt generally doesn’t care. They certainly do precious little to address it!

On Rightmove there are loads of houses up for sale. There is not a lack of houses for sale. The problem is many can't pay a sizeable deposit. So people buying second homes are not depriving others from getting one it is their lack of deposit/earning capacity that stops them. Stop blaming others for your lack of deposit when they are doing nothing wrong.

Stop blaming others for your lack of deposit when they are doing nothing wrong.

🙄

@caringcarer

On Rightmove there are loads of houses up for sale. There is not a lack of houses for sale. The problem is many can't pay a sizeable deposit. So people buying second homes are not depriving others from getting one it is their lack of deposit/earning capacity that stops them. Stop blaming others for your lack of deposit when they are doing nothing wrong.

There are no words for this kind of tunnel vision. None. Did you even bother to read the thread before you typed this garbage?

@caringcarer economics isn't your best subject is it?

I agree @caringcarer appears not to have even read the responses to their own comments!

It's not simply whether there are houses available for sale! Of course there's houses available for sale! That doesn't mean there are homes available within financial reach of most people nor does it mean there are homes available for the poor,

What a seriously ill informed comment!

And as I and others have ALREADY SAID the ability to amass a deposit isn't purely down to a potential buyers ability to earn/save it's down to MANY other economic factors

A persons ability to earn begins with being born fit and healthy and able to learn for starters, then there's the fact that the class into which they were born affects the educational and work experience opportunities they are able to access, then there's the state of the economy when they leave education among other things and how that affects how many jobs are available to be applied for, there's whether the wages paid to people are actual living wages let alone at a level people can save, there's interest rates on savings, the price of properties then comes into play which is of course determined not just by the seller but by the economy and banking practice...

The people trying to save for deposits or even just trying to afford rent are not the people remotely responsible for the costs of these things nor the factors influencing their ability to do so.

This entire thread shows many many reasons why those who buy 2nd homes ARE doing something wrong because their actions have an effect on housing prices (not just purchase prices either but rents too) in the places where they are buying 2nd homes plus as has been said the many negative impacts on the economy of those areas, impact on businesses, schools etc

Yep really does seem as if you've responded having read and understood very little about the issue caringcarer

I agree with much of what you say, Graphista, and believe that we are all equally entitled to make the best of the hand of cards we are dealt at birth. As in cards, some get a good hand and some not, but with the genetic inheritance factor (because intelligence is largely an inherited element, regardless of what teachers say) some people just will not ever have the potential to become Prime Minister or run Google worldwide. Fortunately most people don''t want the responsibility or the scrutiny that comes with that job. . Some, who might be candidates, rule themselves out of the game early by age 14, playing truant and ignoring the potential gain of education. So it ends up being the steady sensible person, who doesn't suffer life-compromising reverses, who ends up in the chair.

I am not as beautiful as Elle McPherson, although I can learn make up tricks and stay fittish, even at 65; and I am not as clever as many academics. I don't earn a great deal of money, but through 45 years of work, DH and I get by. He has a strong commercial business background. But ultimately, the attitude your parents teach you is more important than anything else. You can learn this. It is important. You may need to know if you don't learn this, and pass it on, then progress won't happen. And only progressive increases in general prosperity will help the old and the ill and the weaker members of society.

It will never be the result simply of taxing the "rich" more. Because the "rich" have more options, and probably always will have.

Funny how the locals never say, 'No, I won't sell my desirable seaside cottage at an inflated price to some city dweller seeking a holiday home. I'll knock down the price to a deserving young local couple instead.'

@katy1213

Funny how the locals never say, 'No, I won't sell my desirable seaside cottage at an inflated price to some city dweller seeking a holiday home. I'll knock down the price to a deserving young local couple instead.'

How would that work? You couldn’t put it on the market at two prices depending on which category your buyer was in. The only way to sort it out is with the restrictions some councils and national park authorities have already introduced. And punitive taxation of both the purchase and ongoing occupation.

@CountessFrog

It would be interesting to debate this point without resorting to mud slinging.

Taking the example of St Ives that I gave above, where H2 restrictions were placed on homes years ago, and where prices have continued to skyrocket despite this, leaving some properties unsellable.

What the answer?

Because even if you forcibly removed all holiday properties, bought them from the owner and went on to use them for local families, how would it solve the problem? The huge drop in holiday accommodation woukd lead to fewer visitors, and with a local economy reliant on tourism, many local families would lose the income required to service their accommodation costs.

I honestly think the ‘second homes’ issue is a red herring. The problem is also lack of investment in the local economies, lack of other job opportunities. I have a significant amount of family in Cornwall and the younger generations (30+) have all moved ‘up country.’ Their reasons for moving were nothing to do with house prices and everything to do with wanting better job opportunities, easier commuting, better access to other things like cultural events/shopping. None of them show any eagerness to return - you could literally gift them a house by the sea, but they wouldn’t want to live there.

Yes, I think you are right. There are several issues really and some places are more affected by one than the others, in others they are all issues.

There are towns or areas of cities etc where it is mainly second homes, airb&b, have been really significant. It's not that there is no work in some tourist cities, but the accommodations in the nicest areas are now all for short-term let, and the prices of what remains is too much for most people.

In some places it's mainly second homes, and in a lot, as you say, lack of jobs outside major cities or certain regions is the problem.

This isn't something unique to the UK, either. Which makes me think it's not something that can be pinned on one particular political party. It's to do with the economic environment and larger policy trends across the developed world.