To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

[coolitcathy]

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

@coolitcathy

High functioning literally means no learning difficulties so it is not an unreasonable assumption for a person with an adult child on the other end of the spectrum to make.

Except there are people with learning difficulties who can type.

I think you are being terribly unfair on that parent by making snidy comments like that. Their child is non verbal and can't type on a computer, their experience of life is totally different from yours.

What part of my comment was snidy? You can't tell the severity of people's disabilities through the internet. I didn't realise that was a contrarian point of view.

You said it is the 'presumption of the thread' it isn't, it is one person's stated opinion of the many people who posted on here.

That person has a severely disabled autistic child with a completely different life experience from yours. She is entitled to feel that you don't speak for her son. This comment was having a dig at her personal opinion.

@GlowingOrb

I think it would help if the general message was more honest about risks

We found a doctor who was willing to talk to us about our concerns and spread out the shots so never getting more than one a visit because it helped reduce our fear. Because of that dialogue, dd is fully vaxed

^This

No. I completely understand that for terminal conditions, its sometimes the better option. I'm on about people who will have a good quality of life but that life may look somewhat different to what the parent imagined.

This is slightly on a tangent but I think too many parents try to plan out their kids lives before they're even born and in some cases before they're conceived. They decide that they'll do this extracurricular, they'll go to that university, they'll do x y and z for hobbies, they'll get married, have kids etc. And then they get crushingly disappointed when the child is disabled or later on when the child comes out gay, or is childfree by choice, or doesn't want to go to university etc.

To me, aborting for livable disability comes into this category. The child doesn't fit the mold so we will try again.

I wish more parents were open to children being their own individual people, and that a good life can look like different for everyone.

You said it is the presumption of the thread it isn't, it is one person's stated opinion of the many people who posted on here.

I said "there's a presumption on this thread". That's not to tar everyone with the same brush, I was attempting to avoid pointing the finger. You can't tell how "functioning" people are by the fact that they can type (because some people with learning disabilities who are "low functioning" can type or get assistance for it). So it is presumptuous.

That person has a severely disabled autistic child with a completely different life experience from yours. She is entitled to feel that you don't speak for her son. This comment was having a dig at her personal opinion.

I've never said I speak for her son? I'm not even sure what you're referring to. In that context I literally only said; "There's also a presumption on this thread that you can establish how "functioning" someone is solely based on the fact that they can type on a laptop.". I stand by that statement and I don't see how it's "having a dig" at anyone.

I took my 2 month old DS for his first set of jabs yesterday. It was the right thing to do. However despite being a fairly intelligent adult, in the few hours beforehand I nearly let the antivaxxer scaremongering get to me and I felt on edge all day. When it's the most precious thing in your life, it's hard to not worry that perhaps there is a grain of truth in their bullshit.

But it is seen almost solely as such a bad thing that getting polio or diphtheria is a lesser risk than having an autistic child
Because it’s a spectrum and you don’t know how severe the disability will be. Same as Downs - people saying it’s a survivable disability with a decent quality of life have never met a person who’s severely affected.

I know a lady who cares for her 50-something sister who has severe Downs. She’s non verbal, can’t walk, isn’t toilet trained, and struggles to do even simple tasks like dressing herself. She spends a lot of time staring at the wall because she doesn’t have the capacity to do much else. Her mother spent her life as a carer, then the older sister became the carer and her partner left her because the burden was too great. Now the other sister is the carer and she can’t even take her own grandkids to the park because she has to look after her sister all the time. Can you imagine changing nappies for a 50 year old when you’re in your 70s yourself? Everyone talks about kids with Downs being cute, but it’s not so cute when it’s an obese adult with no teeth or hair, who wears nappies and is covered in boils. I’ve bumped into her in the street and seen with my own eyes how people stare and recoil in horror. And who knows what will happen in the future because there are no more sisters to take over her care, so she’ll end up in a home being mostly forgotten. I wouldn’t want that life for my child or myself - and it’s a lottery whether a child with Downs will be functional or whether they will be as severely affected as this lady.

For God sake ...what about the parent who is worried that the care system will fail their severely autistic child when they are six feet under. Or the one who worries they will commit suicide due to the external cycle of anxiety. Their are so many different experiences it is not just about their expectations of a perfect child. PCR testing for Huntingdons and sickle cell anemia gives a choice and yes I know that's a huge leap but for some autistic people the suffering is as significant and can be life limiting in numerous ways.

@DonkeyMcFluff

But it is seen almost solely as such a bad thing that getting polio or diphtheria is a lesser risk than having an autistic child Because it’s a spectrum and you don’t know how severe the disability will be. Same as Downs - people saying it’s a survivable disability with a decent quality of life have never met a person who’s severely affected.

I know a lady who cares for her 50-something sister who has severe Downs. She’s non verbal, can’t walk, isn’t toilet trained, and struggles to do even simple tasks like dressing herself. She spends a lot of time staring at the wall because she doesn’t have the capacity to do much else. Her mother spent her life as a carer, then the older sister became the carer and her partner left her because the burden was too great. Now the other sister is the carer and she can’t even take her own grandkids to the park because she has to look after her sister all the time. Can you imagine changing nappies for a 50 year old when you’re in your 70s yourself? Everyone talks about kids with Downs being cute, but it’s not so cute when it’s an obese adult with no teeth or hair, who wears nappies and is covered in boils. I’ve bumped into her in the street and seen with my own eyes how people stare and recoil in horror. And who knows what will happen in the future because there are no more sisters to take over her care, so she’ll end up in a home being mostly forgotten. I wouldn’t want that life for my child or myself - and it’s a lottery whether a child with Downs will be functional or whether they will be as severely affected as this lady.

Every word of this.

And i went ahead with a pregnancy with a 1;5 risk of downs without an amniocentisis. This was exactly what I was thinking about when I was trying to decide whether to have it or not. My son was 3 at the time and it was his future I was thinking of not mine.

I would never take away a woman's choice.

'Everyone talks about kids with Downs being cute, but it’s not so cute when it’s an obese adult with no teeth or hair, who wears nappies and is covered in boils. I’ve bumped into her in the street and seen with my own eyes how people stare and recoil in horror.'

I'm sorry, what?!

You are talking about a human being here. You have painted them as a Frankenstein.

I have one friend who is a vehement anti vaxxer and posts about on fb all the time. She doesn't believe it causes autism but that they're full of unnatural chemicals. I have to sit on my hands or I'll comment "that didn't matter to you in the 90's when you were ramming pills, snorting powder and freebasing every weekend". I would but her kids would see it and that's not right.

The WarriorMamas are always like this when adult autistics are involved.

I thought that term was only used about parents who condone ABA and similar? Huh.

Its selfish in all honesty - you want to eradicate autism from the gene pool because your life was made hard by it.

This is utter bullshit - it’s our children’s lives that are so difficult, can you not understand that?

But a disability where the child is able to live a decent life? No. You don't pick and choose what you get, its not like ordering something on amazon.

Right, so what do you define as a decent life? I assume you’d be happy to switch places with my children then, lose your ability to communicate or understand language or read this research that excludes those like them? Not be able to live independently or understand what a toilet is for and have to have your nappies changed as an adult? I’m not sure you’d be happy with that, to be honest.

While the diagnosis is the same, we are talking about two different things here.

What part of my comment was snidy? You can't tell the severity of people's disabilities through the internet. I didn't realise that was a contrarian point of view

No you can’t, but you can tell the difference between someone able to engage in a discussion and someone who doesn’t understand words. Is this really that hard to understand? No matter what difficulties or barriers anyone on this thread has, the fact that they are able to engage in this discussion demonstrates that their ability to function in life is automatically higher than those who could not, since communication and language are pretty fundamental parts of living a “decent life”.

@SinkGirl

The WarriorMamas are always like this when adult autistics are involved.

I thought that term was only used about parents who condone ABA and similar? Huh.

Its selfish in all honesty - you want to eradicate autism from the gene pool because your life was made hard by it.

This is utter bullshit - it’s our children’s lives that are so difficult, can you not understand that?

But a disability where the child is able to live a decent life? No. You don't pick and choose what you get, its not like ordering something on amazon.

Right, so what do you define as a decent life? I assume you’d be happy to switch places with my children then, lose your ability to communicate or understand language or read this research that excludes those like them? Not be able to live independently or understand what a toilet is for and have to have your nappies changed as an adult? I’m not sure you’d be happy with that, to be honest.

While the diagnosis is the same, we are talking about two different things here.

I'm assuming your children aren't adults? I remember you said they're 5 or 6? Why do you assume this is a permanent state for them?

@SinkGirl

What part of my comment was snidy? You can't tell the severity of people's disabilities through the internet. I didn't realise that was a contrarian point of view

No you can’t, but you can tell the difference between someone able to engage in a discussion and someone who doesn’t understand words. Is this really that hard to understand? No matter what difficulties or barriers anyone on this thread has, the fact that they are able to engage in this discussion demonstrates that their ability to function in life is automatically higher than those who could not, since communication and language are pretty fundamental parts of living a “decent life”.

OK, yes I have an specific advantage over people who cannot speak or understand language, irrespective of autism. That does not allude to me being necessarily either "high" or "low" functioning though (and I'll keep bringing up that I dislike these labels). I could still have a learning difficulty that meant I could speak and express myself, but it was difficult or required additional support for example. "Not being able to speak" is potentially a factor within having learning disabilities that make you "low functioning" but it's not the only factor.

I'm sorry, what?!

You are talking about a human being here. You have painted them as a Frankenstein.

Whilst not a great description it's very telling that out of that whole post, this is the only bit you choose to pick up on, conveniently ignoring the destruction of several lives within all of this. I'll post the rest of it for you to re read and attempt to absorb.

She’s non verbal, can’t walk, isn’t toilet trained, and struggles to do even simple tasks like dressing herself. She spends a lot of time staring at the wall because she doesn’t have the capacity to do much else. Her mother spent her life as a carer, then the older sister became the carer and her partner left her because the burden was too great. Now the other sister is the carer and she can’t even take her own grandkids to the park because she has to look after her sister all the time. Can you imagine changing nappies for a 50 year old when you’re in your 70s yourself

Personally, I find it difficult to speak because I don't think in a language. Its really hard to explain but I have to translate every thought and some don't translate properly. You wouldn't know this from talking to me or seeing me type.

Are you shitting me are you really telling a parent that as their child is only young they might grow out of their disability.

I'm assuming your children aren't adults? I remember you said they're 5 or 6? Why do you assume this is a permanent state for them?

Because medical professional exist and they're able to provide a prognosis to help manage developmental expectations? Why are you deliberately being so vicious? I'd imagine SinkGirl knows a fuck of a lot more about ferrari children's development than you do. One if my autistic DC will very likely not be able to live independently, this is based on a series of neurology reports which show little to no progress in several areas of cognitive development. Some states really are permanent.

Ferrari = her, not sure where that autocorrect came from

Are you shitting me are you really telling a parent that as their child is only young they might grow out of their disability

Yes looks like it. The self absorbed one track thinking is really quite something.

No, I'm not saying people grow out of autism. I'm saying that what autism looks like in a 5 year old is different to a 20 year old. Sometimes that is the case but sometimes its not, I asked why she is assuming that meaning that maybe she has been told they'll never communicate or maybe she hasn't. Thats why I asked.

I'm glad no one made judgements about my future based on what I was like as a child. Its worlds apart.

@Kaliorphic

Are you shitting me are you really telling a parent that as their child is only young they might grow out of their disability

Yes looks like it. The self absorbed one track thinking is really quite something.

Ironic given the comments from the AutismParents.

It is preferable to eradicate us than it is for society and neurotypical people to accommodate and provide adaptations. The autistic people who have poor self care abilities occur in the same number of cases as neurotypicals who have poor self care abilities, so logically, they should be screened for and eradicated as well. When a woman embarks on a pregnancy, she knows that she is taking a risk and may end up with a child who has an illness or disability. Babies aren't dollies, they're not churned out in a factory and examined for defects then rejected to be recycled into another dolly if any are found.

The worth of a society can be measured in how it treats it's most vulnerable members. The vast majority of autistic people can live happy and productive lives IF we are able to determine how we need to live and have some control over our environment. Do me and my son deserve to die? Most people here would agree that we do. Thank you for that. This attitude is the reason why he can't go to school and I'm a recluse.

Ironic given the comments from the AutismParents.

I don't think you understand the meaning of irony.