Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

691 replies

coolitcathy · 16/12/2020 16:18

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Kaliorphic · 18/12/2020 09:29

However, when asked, most adult autistics vehemently oppose a cure and are happy to be autistic.

Those who are able to understand and articulate a response. That's not everyone.

Respect our wishes

These are your wishes not our wishes. You don't get to be the spokesperson for everyone else.

Kaliorphic · 18/12/2020 09:31

Does that suggest that autistic people cannot understand emotive subjects?

There is a lack of understanding in some areas for some people. It's not a blanket statement that all can't. But clearly some struggle with it.

Original poster
coolitcathy · 18/12/2020 09:34

There is a lack of understanding in some areas for some people. It's not a blanket statement that all can't. But clearly some struggle with it.

Except that's not what the post alluded to. It's presumptuous to say "discussing this with you is futile because you're autistic".

OP posts:
ForestNymph · 18/12/2020 09:34

@Kaliorphic

Our existence should not be dependent on the approval or permission of NTs. We have as much right to exist here as you do.

Anyone's existence in the UK at least is dependent on the wishes of the person giving birth to them, the mother, who may or may not be NT. Not the wishes of some random stranger.

And given the misinformation and negative perception of autism, making a prenatal test available would basically be a genocide of us.

Prenatal tests for stuff like this shouldn't exist.

ForestNymph · 18/12/2020 09:35

@Kaliorphic

However, when asked, most adult autistics vehemently oppose a cure and are happy to be autistic.

Those who are able to understand and articulate a response. That's not everyone.

Respect our wishes

These are your wishes not our wishes. You don't get to be the spokesperson for everyone else.

The vast majority of adult autistics share my view. Love NTs talking over us tho.
bumbleymummy · 18/12/2020 09:42

@mandarinpink

“ she knew her daughter was autistic by the time she was 1 year old. 2 years before her daughter's vaccinations. ”

The first MMR is usually given at 12/13 months, it’s the booster that is given at 3/4. I’m not saying that she’s right - just pointing out that it isn’t first given at 3.

tootiredtospeak · 18/12/2020 09:42

No it doesn't at all cooiltcathy it means that when I try to discuss an emotive subject with forestnymph she or he keeps insulting me personally suggesting I have poor parenting skills and wish to commit genocide. Refusing to even consider my side of the argument which is fundamentally that one person with autism doesn't represent all peoples views. The same as my view will not be for everyone therefore, I feel frustrated with the insults. Not the point of view that I am wrong just the insults.

peaceanddove · 18/12/2020 09:43

It's because a worryingly large percentage of the population are not very good at thinking.

ForestNymph · 18/12/2020 09:44

@tootiredtospeak

No it doesn't at all cooiltcathy it means that when I try to discuss an emotive subject with forestnymph she or he keeps insulting me personally suggesting I have poor parenting skills and wish to commit genocide. Refusing to even consider my side of the argument which is fundamentally that one person with autism doesn't represent all peoples views. The same as my view will not be for everyone therefore, I feel frustrated with the insults. Not the point of view that I am wrong just the insults.
I've said that I appreciate your son wished to be cured, but that the vast majority of adult autistics don't. And I'm not insulting you - what you are suggesting is genocide. You just don't like someone telling you what it is.
cantdothisnow1 · 18/12/2020 09:45

@coolitcathy

I know we've used the "high / low functioning" labels a lot in this thread as it's difficult to describe specifics of a condition without them but I've attached a little photo of why that can be harmful (hope you can read it, it's very long!)

Wishing away a child's disability IS ableism. It's the very definition of it.
I think wishing for someone's disability to be easier or for them to be in less pain isn't ableism necessarily. I see that as caring for people close to you. But I think trying to change or coerce an autistic child into behaving like a 'normal' one or letting them know you wish they were different is harmful. And for me anyway, that's where the distinction is.

Trying to coerce an Autistic child into NT behaviours is ableism. It's what happens in schools every day, it is why my children are not in schools because I wasn't prepared for them to suffer any more trauma as a result.

Wishing they could be in schools and have friends with the same ease as other children their age is not ableism it's human nature. It doesn't change who they are, it's pointless but it most certainly isn't ableism.

Kaliorphic · 18/12/2020 09:45

Except that's not what the post alluded to. It's presumptuous to say "discussing this with you is futile because you're autistic

Well clearly there's another reason why a few people simply cannot get the nuances of this discussion then. Wonder what it is...

And given the misinformation and negative perception of autism, making a prenatal test available would basically be a genocide of us.

Not genocide for you. You're already here. You don't get to decide for other women what they choose to do with their bodies and their lives.

The vast majority of adult autistics share my view. Love NTs talking over us tho

You don't know that at all, you just think they do. Thus it has to be the same for everyone else. And I love your assumption I'm neurotypical. You have no idea what I am do you. But somehow, I don't think you'll get that either.

Original poster
coolitcathy · 18/12/2020 09:46

Well clearly there's another reason why a few people simply cannot get the nuances of this discussion then. Wonder what it is...

That's quite condescending and dismissive if I'm honest Hmm

OP posts:
Kaliorphic · 18/12/2020 09:47

That's quite condescending and dismissive if I'm honest

Gosh really?

ForestNymph · 18/12/2020 09:48

@Kaliorphic

Except that's not what the post alluded to. It's presumptuous to say "discussing this with you is futile because you're autistic

Well clearly there's another reason why a few people simply cannot get the nuances of this discussion then. Wonder what it is...

And given the misinformation and negative perception of autism, making a prenatal test available would basically be a genocide of us.

Not genocide for you. You're already here. You don't get to decide for other women what they choose to do with their bodies and their lives.

The vast majority of adult autistics share my view. Love NTs talking over us tho

You don't know that at all, you just think they do. Thus it has to be the same for everyone else. And I love your assumption I'm neurotypical. You have no idea what I am do you. But somehow, I don't think you'll get that either.

Its a genocide of autistic people. If someone isn't prepared to have an autistic child then they don't deserve to have a child at all.

No, I do know that. There have been studies and surveys done on this and I have been an activist for autism positivity for many years. But keep making assumptions that I've just pulled it out my ass to make yourself feel better.

ForestNymph · 18/12/2020 09:48

@coolitcathy

Well clearly there's another reason why a few people simply cannot get the nuances of this discussion then. Wonder what it is...

That's quite condescending and dismissive if I'm honest Hmm

The WarriorMamas are always like this when adult autistics are involved.
Kaliorphic · 18/12/2020 09:51

Its a genocide of autistic people. If someone isn't prepared to have an autistic child then they don't deserve to have a child at all.

Not your choice.

No, I do know that. There have been studies and surveys done on this and I have been an activist for autism positivity for many years. But keep making assumptions that I've just pulled it out my ass to make yourself feel better.

The research you have is clearly one-sided then. Hardly surprising.

tootiredtospeak · 18/12/2020 09:53

You cant tell me what it is, cant you see my point. You can have a view that's what it is an opinion but it is not fact. What you are say isn't fact you are not representing all adults with autism. That is your opinion the same as my opinion and you need to understand that. Its opposing views not right and wrong or black and white. No personal insults on parenting skills needed. I don't think your experience reflects enough of the autistic community to speak for all and I don't feel you identify with LF autistics you see them all as intellectually disabled and that is something different to yourself. It's not it's just a difference on the spectrum.

ForestNymph · 18/12/2020 09:54

@Kaliorphic

Its a genocide of autistic people. If someone isn't prepared to have an autistic child then they don't deserve to have a child at all.

Not your choice.

No, I do know that. There have been studies and surveys done on this and I have been an activist for autism positivity for many years. But keep making assumptions that I've just pulled it out my ass to make yourself feel better.

The research you have is clearly one-sided then. Hardly surprising.

It shouldn't be legal. The same as how sex selective abortions were deemed unethical.

No, its done by asking adult autistics. As a NT you really don't get an opinion on this. This is OUR issue. Not yours.

cantdothisnow1 · 18/12/2020 09:55

If someone isn't prepared to have an autistic child then they don't deserve to have a child at all.

This is all a bit hypothetical given that there is no pre-natal test for autism. But out of interest do you feel that all pre-natal screening and parental choice is genocide or is it just the possibility for autism that concerns you?

ForestNymph · 18/12/2020 09:57

@tootiredtospeak

You cant tell me what it is, cant you see my point. You can have a view that's what it is an opinion but it is not fact. What you are say isn't fact you are not representing all adults with autism. That is your opinion the same as my opinion and you need to understand that. Its opposing views not right and wrong or black and white. No personal insults on parenting skills needed. I don't think your experience reflects enough of the autistic community to speak for all and I don't feel you identify with LF autistics you see them all as intellectually disabled and that is something different to yourself. It's not it's just a difference on the spectrum.
This "everyone's opinion is valid" is pure bollocks. Sometimes things are right and things are wrong. No doubt you'll accuse me of black and white thinking or whatever but there are circumstances where there is an objective correct answer. Not all - but they do exist.

I understand your opinion. I just think its wrong and is full of jaded angst because you think your life is unfair and resent it. Its selfish in all honesty - you want to eradicate autism from the gene pool because your life was made hard by it.

My life was made hard by NTs, how would you like it if I said the same about them?

Original poster
coolitcathy · 18/12/2020 09:58

My life was made hard by NTs, how would you like it if I said the same about them?

Yes, god forbid I had a neurotypical child, shame there aren't tests for that Grin

(I'm kidding of course!)

OP posts:
ForestNymph · 18/12/2020 09:58

@cantdothisnow1

If someone isn't prepared to have an autistic child then they don't deserve to have a child at all.

This is all a bit hypothetical given that there is no pre-natal test for autism. But out of interest do you feel that all pre-natal screening and parental choice is genocide or is it just the possibility for autism that concerns you?

All of it. I don't agree with aborting for downs or other survivable disabilities either. Life threatening or terminal, I can understand. But a disability where the child is able to live a decent life? No. You don't pick and choose what you get, its not like ordering something on amazon. You can't customise your child and you don't scrap it and try again because it wasn't "perfect".
ForestNymph · 18/12/2020 09:59

@coolitcathy

My life was made hard by NTs, how would you like it if I said the same about them?

Yes, god forbid I had a neurotypical child, shame there aren't tests for that Grin

(I'm kidding of course!)

Have you seen the satire page "neurotypical syndrome"? It always gives me a good laugh.
Original poster
coolitcathy · 18/12/2020 10:00

I've not seen it, ForestNymph could you send a link? Grin

OP posts:
Kaliorphic · 18/12/2020 10:00

It shouldn't be legal. The same as how sex selective abortions were deemed unethical.

It is legal. Because women have the choice. You don't get to choose for other people how they live their lives because genocide if they don't do what you think they should. You get to choose for you. And that is it. Not me. Not anyone else. Deal with it.

No, its done by asking adult autistics. As a NT you really don't get an opinion on this. This is OUR issue. Not yours.

You have no idea if I am NT or not. Assumptions again. Also, you don't get to decide whether I can have an opinion on this or not. Newsflash, I do. And I'm writing it down here all over this thread. Just like you are.