To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

[coolitcathy]

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

For example. I have a very limited amount of foods I eat due to sensory issues. Is this a problem? No. It becomes a problem when work culture is around going out for meals and everyone makes a big song and dance out of someone not eating.

I hear that part, yes. If we were living in a decade without cars, artifical lighting, planes and other loud noises, massive social groups and overcrowding etc my autism would be less disabling.

Coolitcathy but what if your sensory issue is touch and you cant bear your mother hugging you or bathing you or that your food refusal is so severe you wo nt keep down solids. Because autism is a spectrum and there are people at such different ends of that spectrum to blanket say that if other people changed attitudes and the world is just too simplistic for me. I am glad that some people have found peace in adulthood and really hope my Son does but I genuinely don't think it's possible to change enough things to mean life with autism doesn't feel like a disability.

I agree, I think there are elements of autism that are disabling because of external perspective or the world we live in, and there are also elements that are core issues that are sometimes just an inevitable part of life as an autistic person unfortunately. It's a complicated conversation for a complicated condition.

@tootiredtospeak

Coolitcathy but what if your sensory issue is touch and you cant bear your mother hugging you or bathing you or that your food refusal is so severe you wo nt keep down solids. Because autism is a spectrum and there are people at such different ends of that spectrum to blanket say that if other people changed attitudes and the world is just too simplistic for me. I am glad that some people have found peace in adulthood and really hope my Son does but I genuinely don't think it's possible to change enough things to mean life with autism doesn't feel like a disability.

But there are NT people who have issues to do with that. There are severe emetephobes for example who are afraid to eat. My point is that difficulties are found in both NT and autistic popukations and just because some autistics have difficulties isn't a reason to basically wipe us out.

Forestnymph I would really appreciate it if you would just answer my question of how then you are changing society and the world for people with an intellectual disability with autism. I don't feel like you are even prepared to consider that argument.

I know several anti-vaxxers through DP. He is into homeopathy and has met lots of likeminded friends who favour ‘natural remedies’ over actual medicine etc.

I'm not sure it’s entirely accurate to describe them as preferring a dead child vs one living with autism. The whole point of their stance (well at least the ones I know) is that they do not think the diseases their unvaccinated children might catch will kill them.

DP’s friends are quite nonchalant about measles. They think vitamin C and a few homeopathic remedies will cure it. Several of their children have had measles and none of the parents appeared particularly concerned.

I also honestly haven’t heard any of them mention autism in relation to their antipathy towards vaccinations. They seem more concerned about the damage ingredients will do to their child’s physical health and various conspiracy theories connected to ‘Big Pharma’.

@coolitcathy

Fundamentally people would really GENUINELY prefer dead kids over autistic ones

Well it’s not that straightforward is it? Certainly not having a vaccine doesn’t mean you will die. And vaccines can damage people , sometimes very severely.
Autism can be very devastating also. Things are not easy to decide.

@ForestNymph
Unfortunately, many people with autism are disabled by their condition, and that includes many who have no intellectual disability. It's not all to do with society. Contrary to what you said earlier, it can be intrinsic.

You're really not listening to what pp are saying.

Its not that I'm not listening, its that its incorrect. Look at the social model of disability which explains this far better than I could, but basically there isn't really a facet of autism that is disabling on its own rather than in societal context.

That's simply not true I'm afraid. Maybe it's true in your case, but I think you need to look beyond your own experience, and yes, you do need to listen to what people are telling you.

The whole point of their stance (well at least the ones I know) is that they do not think the diseases their unvaccinated children might catch will kill them.

This is also not correct, though. There's every chance that Polio, Diphtheria, Rotavirus etc when not vaccinated can cause death or serious health complications in children.

I don't think anyone can deny that autism has been demonised over the years. Wider society regard us as subhuman at worst, a sideshow at best. The anti vaxxers always seem to cite autism as the reason they want to avoid vaccinations, rather than vaccine damage.

When I was growing up, I thought that autistic kids were severely disabled and unable to engage with the outside world or able to self care, I now know that's completely wrong and the majority of autistic people are like I am. There is a need for autistic people to stand up and tell the world who we are. Many non verbal autistic people can still communicate through communication aids. There is a person inside.

The trouble with anti vaxxers is that they benefit from all the herd immunity that everyone else provides. They'll cite that their kids have sailed through childhood and not become ill - well yes, that's because we took the small risk of our children having a negative reaction to vaccination and have provided their children with the societal benefit.

I agree farawayplanet. I've heard a lot more from vocal anti-vaxxers about the "potential risk" of autism in relation to vaccinations rather than any other vaccination risks (like allergic reaction). Autistic people are often demeaned as a social problem, rather than people who need to be accommodated for.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

The trouble with anti vaxxers is that they benefit from all the herd immunity that everyone else provides. They'll cite that their kids have sailed through childhood and not become ill - well yes, that's because we took the small risk of our children having a negative reaction to vaccination and have provided their children with the societal benefit.

Absolutely this.

They'll cite that their kids have sailed through childhood and not become ill - well yes, that's because we took the small risk of our children having a negative reaction to vaccination and have provided their children with the societal benefit.

Indeed MrsGeneHunt. I wonder if they would change their mind following a bout of incurable polio, causing potential long-term physical atrophies and deformities. Or cholera, which is horrendous for various reasons I won't describe at lunchtime!

I think it’s because rates of autism (and ADHD for that matter) are rising year on year and no one really knows why

It’s not really explained by the increase diagnosis.

I think it’s multifactorial relating to environmental issues generally.

But actually we don’t have studied comparing entirely unvaxxed kids with the plethora kids now receive. I suspect for some kids, it’s largely genetic plus something that tips them over into it and who knows - maybe 30 odd vaccines is one of those things?

I vaccinate my kids before you all scream at me. But I feel we don’t know the subtle effects of multiple vaccinations.

It’s well known in dog owners that annual vaccinations aren’t a great idea and even some vets are taking note.

God knows! Only this morning my neighbour was telling me her 80 yr old mother won't be having the covid vaccine so we got into a conversation about that.

Then she went on to say her dd hadn't had the mmr 18 years ago because it causes autism..I told her that had been thoroughly debunked and she claims to know two kids who went autistic virtually overnight after having it!

There are many hate groups that would prefer me to never have children (or actually probably get euthanised in some cases) but I am worthy of love and care, and so would my children be

I don’t believe this is a thing.

@Nottherealslimshady could you please elaborate on the extended vaccine timeframe? It’s something I want to consider for my child too but haven’t heard a lot of parents discuss it in real life. Would appreciate your opinion

@UsedUpUsername

It absolutely is a thing.

This just about answers it.

I don’t believe this is a thing.
Big trigger warning; hate speech, violence etc

Just some stuff to do with people treating autistic people very poorly:

"Children with Asperger’s and autism are being bullied, abused and even robbed by people they think are their friends, according to study revealing the horrific extent of so-called “mate crime”.

A staggeringly high number of people with autism and Asperger’s syndrome are being subjected to mate crime, a form of disability hate crime in which a vulnerable person is manipulated or abused by someone they believed to be their friend, a survey by an autism charity has found." www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/mate-crime-replacing-hate-crime-children-asperger-s-and-autism-increasingly-being-abused-and-robbed-so-called-friends-10383677.html

(about Autism Speaks)
"...That’s without mentioning their infamous video “I am Autism“, in which an evil-sounding voice narrates “I am Autism, and I’ll make sure your marriage fails”, amongst other hideous assertions that autism will destroy your family, take all your money and cause you embarrassment at every social event. It’s compared to a number of diseases, including AIDS and Leukemia, diseases that kill people, rather than what autism is, a (sometimes disabling) difference in neurology. It’s again blamed for leaving families penniless, breaking up marriages, depriving parents of sleep. The proud families finally rally together against their children’s brains, declaring that they will beat autism. (from here, whyiboycottautismspeaks.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/autism-speaks-hate-speech-and-eugenics/ mentions the video I linked upthread)

Also this clip of a mother who spoke about considering killing herself and her autistic child by driving off a bridge, but stopped herself because she also has a neurotypical child.

There's this Kickstarter that got made a few years ago to stop a Facebook page called "Exterminate All Autistics" www.change.org/p/facebook-please-remove-the-page-called-exterminate-all-autistic-s-and-ban-the-page-owner-permanetly-from-facebook-every-single-post-is-a-hatespeech-and-almost-every-post-talks-about-killing-anyone-who-has-autisim-they-even-made-an-event-about-it-than?recruiter=27234512&utm_campaign=twitter_link_action_box&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition

And this other Kickstarter trying to remove a page called, "FAMILIES AGAINST AUTISTIC SHOOTERS"
www.change.org/p/facebook-immediately-remove-hate-speech-page?recruiter=397252412&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

First image is a message sent to an autistic woman on Twitter. Other two are hopefully self explanatory.

Sorry I'm trying to attach another photo but it won't let me for whatever reason. If it's not attached with this message just read through the other sources

Bugger wrong one sorry! (not by any means suggesting these are all anti-vaxxers but there are groups who want autistic people sterilized or euthanised, which was my original claim)

@coolitcathy none of those illnesses are prevalent in the U.K. and the WHO recently declared Polio has been virtually eradicated worldwide with a few pockets remaining in Asia. I'm not in agreement with anti-vaxxers but realistically, the illnesses you list are not going to trouble them any more than Measles does.

Of course if they lived in poorer countries where children do die from those illnesses I have no doubt they would be beating down the door to get vaccinated and their Homeopathic "remedies" would lose their appeal. They benefit from living in a wealthy country where most people behave responsibly and the herd immunity that comes with that.