To think challenge 25 rules can be silly.

[Balleu]

I used to work in a supermarket before I went to uni and I would regularly help on checkouts despite mostly working on the shop floor.
I saw a lady getting ID'd today for buying alcohol with her teenage daughter.
The lady was refused as her teenage daughter had no ID.

But it got me thinking about the challenge 25 training I had and the ridiculousness of the 'rulezzzz'

For example,
I remember being told to ID even those who work in the shop who are older than 18 but don't look it.

For example, on produce there were young males who were between 18-19. Whenever they came to my till, I had to use the same line
"Sorry I know you're over 18 but I have to ask for ID because you look under 25".

And this was the same with people I knew in everyday life. So an old schoolfriend came in, I knew he was 20 but had to apologise and ask because he looked under 25. Even though I knew he was over 18!

And also, I was on checkout sometimes but not often, so therefore I didn't have many opportunities to ID people as I was mainly on the shop floor.
Nevertheless, I had a scalding off the checkout supervisor as it came up that I had "only" ID'd 4 people in a month (we have an individual checkout number to signin when going on the tills which keeps track).
I explained to him that i've rarely been called onto the tills and clearly when I was on the till I didn't feel the need to ID anybody.
But apparantly this wasn't good enough and I was told to start IDing more people

AIBU to think that, yes of course there are big fines associated with mistakes, but often challenge 25 rules are over the top?

Definitely agree. I started a job in a shop a couple of months ago and was told I had to ask ID for things such as candles, deodorant, cleaning products, Christmas crackers, plastic cutlery, even the tupperware boxes that had the plastic forks included. Thankfully there was never a situation where I had to do it and I left the job after 2 weeks

There is comprehension of the actual Law(s)/Legislation. And - hot air.

I got ID'd for buying NON-ALCOHOLIC mulled lunch.

Punch*

OP - Yanbu.

See: HolyMoly's case in point.

But nobody is forced to buy alcohol. It’s a personal choice. If you choose to buy alcohol then you are responsible for making sure you have with you what you need to be able to do so. Anyone old enough to be buying alcohol is old enough to make sure they have some form of ID with them.

Yes, the way some people behave when challenged/refused buying alcohol is so disproportionate to what they're actually being refused.

It's a substance that is banned for under 18's, restricted in law, with policies and laws around operating heavy machinery, doing just about any job while under the influence. It's not something that causes no harm. It's something that has the potential to cause great harm, and does cause health and anti social behaviour issues. Hence why it's regulated.
Yet people behave like they're being refused or challenged over buying something harmless and essential, rather than potentially harmful and utterly non essential.

My work colleague took in a parcel. They needed ID to prove she was over 18, she’s 62 and looks 62. She had no ID and the delivery guy was arguing with her.

I've had something similar. I'm in my 50s (and look it) but when I went into Tesco on one occasion I was asked if I was over 25.

I had had a really stressful day and really wasn't in the mood so I just replied "What do you think?".

The woman on the checkout then replied "I don't know, that's why I'm asking".

Just to make it clear I really do look my age (in fact, people often think I'm older than I actually am).

I ended up having to get a supervisor to come over before I could purchase a bottle of wine to have with my dinner that night as I don't tend to carry any ID with me normally.

Yet people behave like they're being refused or challenged over buying something harmless and essential, rather than potentially harmful and utterly non essential

It's not just alcohol.

And it's silly for shop staff to say to someone with a whole trolley full of food that they can't buy a bottle of wine amongst that shop because they have a 10 year old with them and they "must" be buying it for them. That isn't the law, and it is also quite offensive to make assumptions about customers.

The law is sensible. The way it is being interpreted and enforced is not. As I said above, it needs reform and retailers need to train their staff properly - not just about this but also about things like data protection and consumer rights.

@PivotPivotPivottt Those sorts of things are what make it hard work, because the supermarket doesn’t have any sign saying you may be asked for proof of age for candles, so you only find out when you’re at the till. And because they’ve lumped it in with challenge 25, and not trained people properly (and probably scared the staff) some staff think it’s a legal requirement and say things like ‘I’d be breaking the law to sell this to you without ID’ instead of ‘I’m afraid it’s company policy, but if you would like to give some feedback on this policy here is the following easy route’

I had to go in store to purchase a knife. Was not allowed to purchase it online for store collection.

Understandable? Yes. Inconvenient? Yes.

A woman of (obvious) mid-sixties being asked for ID to purchase wine? (Saw this in Sainsbury's)

Give over ffs.

I've never been asked for ID. I clearly look about 103

‘I’m afraid it’s company policy, but if you would like to give some feedback on this policy here is the following easy route

And that is a whole different thread! Retailers and other companies paying zero attention to customer feedback. There was a thread about the things people would like to keep after covid has gone away and I posted there about whether any business would read those threads and even if they did, would they pay any attention. For example, keeping a booking system for eg swimming lanes.

It always seems to me that they stay in their ivory towers and pay no attention to their staff or their customers.

The law is the law, but the way it is put into practice can be changed if it is not working.

I got refused buying disposable razers when I was 36 and looked 60. I don't have ID! I'm disabled and can't drive so no need for a licence, no way I could go abroad without significant help so no passport. How do people like me ever buy anything? My dad, in his 60s, was refused plastic cutlery without ID. When he asked about this he was told he couldn't buy his whole shopping without ID, literally an entire weeks worth would be refused, luckily he had ID but that really goes too far!

I worked in shops for many years, all through school and college, I've been that underaged cashier calling an adult over to allow an alcohol sale so I know it from both sides. But sometimes common sense just disappears.

@cologne4711

Yet people behave like they're being refused or challenged over buying something harmless and essential, rather than potentially harmful and utterly non essential

It's not just alcohol.

And it's silly for shop staff to say to someone with a whole trolley full of food that they can't buy a bottle of wine amongst that shop because they have a 10 year old with them and they "must" be buying it for them. That isn't the law, and it is also quite offensive to make assumptions about customers.

The law is sensible. The way it is being interpreted and enforced is not. As I said above, it needs reform and retailers need to train their staff properly - not just about this but also about things like data protection and consumer rights.

It's not just the law that has to be adhered to though. It's the terms of the license that enables a premises to sell alcohol in the first place. A challenge policy (not necessarily challenge 25, but a challenge policy all the same) is a mandatory condition of the license, as is proving it's being used. As I said in a previous post, no laws have to be broken to break the conditions that the license is granted under. They're two allied, but separate things. Licences are granted under certain mandatory, and sometimes additional conditions, while breaking them might not technically or actually break the law, they put the license at risk as you are not sticking to the terms it's granted under.

I agree that it's not just alcohol, and some things are nonsensical. However, we need to put the responsibility back in the hands of the people buying these things, and making them take responsibility for what they do with it, rather than the current way of mostly all the concequences being on the person/business selling it.
We don't blame the person who sells a car, if the person who buys it turns out to gave been banned, has no tax or insurance and drives while wearing a blindfold for a laugh, and causes accidents.

Though I do think they way people behave when challenged or refused over alcohol, is out of proportion, and I stick by that. I've been physically assaulted, sworn at and threatened when asking for ID or refusing to sell alcohol - that's acceptable behaviour is it when refused something that is not essential? That the lack of will not cause hardship? But the sale of could be putting the seller at risk of anything from criminal prosecution to a slap on the wrist. Shop assistants don't get anything from refusing a sale (except perhaps abuse) they can potentially lose a lot from doing the sale.
I wish people would actually just be honest, because for the majority of people it's the 'indignity' of being asked in the first place by people who are seen to be there to service the general public. Some feel like they're being personally insulted by a challenge for ID etc, and behave as such. Those people need to grow up.

Ridiculous rules....l got id'd once - was well in my 30's and had worked in the shop for about 15 years before then. Had my stepson with me so they wrongly assumed l was buying it for him. Didn't go in there again for years to make a point.

Some aspects of challenge 25 are ridiculous in that it basically means you can't take a teenager to do the supermarket shop!

My husband was challenged doing a shop when he had my nephew with him (he's 14) and stated my nephew was 14,no way would he be buying him a £12 bottle of malbec and that he usually would also have my 18 month old son with him would our son not having ID count as well....... Supermarket backed down.

I get asking for ID if people look young enough I don't get challenging parents who are doing a food shop with some alcohol because they happen to also have a teenager!

Yes, it's silly. All an underage person has to do is just put the money on the counter and walk out with the alcohol.