To think challenge 25 rules can be silly.

[Balleu]

I used to work in a supermarket before I went to uni and I would regularly help on checkouts despite mostly working on the shop floor.
I saw a lady getting ID'd today for buying alcohol with her teenage daughter.
The lady was refused as her teenage daughter had no ID.

But it got me thinking about the challenge 25 training I had and the ridiculousness of the 'rulezzzz'

For example,
I remember being told to ID even those who work in the shop who are older than 18 but don't look it.

For example, on produce there were young males who were between 18-19. Whenever they came to my till, I had to use the same line
"Sorry I know you're over 18 but I have to ask for ID because you look under 25".

And this was the same with people I knew in everyday life. So an old schoolfriend came in, I knew he was 20 but had to apologise and ask because he looked under 25. Even though I knew he was over 18!

And also, I was on checkout sometimes but not often, so therefore I didn't have many opportunities to ID people as I was mainly on the shop floor.
Nevertheless, I had a scalding off the checkout supervisor as it came up that I had "only" ID'd 4 people in a month (we have an individual checkout number to signin when going on the tills which keeps track).
I explained to him that i've rarely been called onto the tills and clearly when I was on the till I didn't feel the need to ID anybody.
But apparantly this wasn't good enough and I was told to start IDing more people

AIBU to think that, yes of course there are big fines associated with mistakes, but often challenge 25 rules are over the top?

I used to work in a supermarket so I know all about the fines that come witb failing a challenge 25

No-one is being fined for failing challenge 25. The only fines that are levied are those for breaking the law by selling alcohol to people who are under 18.

@TheTrashBagIsOursCmonTrashBag but she clearly didnt know his age if she thought he was 18 but ended up being 16.

I am on about KNOWING the age. Not presuming a colleage is 18.
I KNEW the produce boys were 18. I KNEW my schoolfriend was 20.

It is stupid, but as you know, the person selling has the responsibility for the sale and can lose their job.

I think the stupidest is the refusing to sell alcohol if you have someone under 18 with you. Fair enough if a group of young adults come through the till, but when it's quite obviously a parent and child, and the parent is buying a bottle of wine with their shopping it's ridiculous. And so what if the parent is buying for the child? Children can drink with parental consent in their own homes.

So, I understand WHY, but I don't agree with it!

@BarbaraofSeville not the case. In the supermarket I worked in, it was drilled into us that we can fail challenge 25 if the police send in someone who is over 18 but apparently looks under 25 and we serve them.

The rules are ludicrous and need overhauling - not just in relation to the person buying, but the person selling. A while ago I was buying a bottle of wine in my local Waitrose and so went to the cigarette counter to buy as I "knew" the person would be over 18.

Ha ha ha. Nope. They had to call someone over to approve the sale. On the age restricted cigarette counter. When I commented, they said they could sell lottery tickets (not from next October, so maybe they will change the policy).

I think shops need to ensure that age-restricted counters are always manned by over 18s, and that on the main tills they wear badges to say if under 18 so if you have age restricted items you know not to go to a 17 year old.

As for the parent with child thing, that is just silly. The silliest one was posted on here - a 19 year old who didn't have ID, so the pharmacy wouldn't sell the paracetomol to her or her father. Not sure how you buy calpol for a child, then.

Interestingly they are more relaxed in Germany. If a group of 17 and 18 year olds buy a load of alcohol, only one of them needs ID to be over 18 and they don't care. I've been behind them in the queue - we were quite surprised that it was ok.

The school friend situation I get but I wouldn’t have taken any chances with a colleague personally and at 18, he’d have been used to whipping out his I.D anyway so I’d have asked to see it.

Yes, they might do that, but you don't get fined if you fail.

You might lose your job if the supermarket is being unfairly harsh, eg you don't ID because you genuinely believe the person looks over 25, or you know them so you know that they are over 18, but no one has been finedbecause they sell alcohol to a person who is over 18 but might look under 25 in someone else's opinion looks under 25.

@TheTrashBagIsOursCmonTrashBag my point stands: if you know.someone is 18 or over, there should be no pressure to ID them.

I had worked with the produce boys for around 2 years, I knew they were over 18.

[quote Balleu]@BarbaraofSeville not the case. In the supermarket I worked in, it was drilled into us that we can fail challenge 25 if the police send in someone who is over 18 but apparently looks under 25 and we serve them.[/quote]
I have a friend who is in her early 30s who is constantly challenged. But she very obviously does not look 17 although she does look younger than 30ish.

But the law is you can buy from 18. The 25 thing is goldplating the law and hence why I think the whole thing needs to be looked at again.

My son turned 18 recently and I wondered how it would go for him with masks - obviously even with a mask he looks young enough to be challenged, he's been asked to show ID every time he has bought something (about 3 times).

The whole point of the rules though is to do away with people relying on nebulous concepts like ‘common sense’ or ‘their own discretion’ because humans are fallible and people get it wrong. So yes, it is a mild inconvenience sometimes but it works for the purpose it was designed for, which is reducing the number of underage people buying alcohol. They are strict about it because when they’re not, people slip through the net and then other people lose their jobs. It’s not the end of the world to just show some id fgs.

We were told you couldn't serve anyone who looked under 25 even if you knew they were over 18 because of perception - someone in the queue might be a busybody and report you leading to more inspections and greater chance of failure for the store and staff.

I do think blanket application is ridiculous on some things. It's never the cashier or staffs fault so we never say anything (I sadly am never ID'd and in fact would be over the moon to at least get a double look , DP on the other time is an irritatingly young looking 37 who greatly delights in being ID'd because he knows it irritates me).

He is very clearly over the age of 18 (despite what he thinks he looks like ). However never the staffs fault and I know it's not worth their jobs (plus he gets at least 48 hours of smugness out of it so he is happy).

I was a bit when my cake palette knife had to be authorised in poundland. I mean if you can stab someone with one of those then frankly you are superhuman and we have bigger issues to worry about.

The most ridiculous part is ID check with home delivery orders. I was 34 or 35 when I ordered a box of matches in my online supermarket order and the driver made me go and get my passport to check my age before giving me my shopping. I was clearly an adult getting a weekly shop delivered, not a teenager doing it to get some matches!!

Just to be clear that shops and staff can't be fined for selling alcohol to someone over 18 but under 25. As the offences in the Licensing Act 2003 clearly set out that the offence is when alcohol is sold to an under 18.

Not can you be fine for failing to operate Challenge 25, although if it's a co diction of your licence that you do, then there's a possibility of the Police seeking a review of the license.

I really do doubt that the police send in over 18s as a test purchase - which force was this? It's really not something I've ever come across and I worked in alcohol licensing a for a fair while.

But essentially Challenge 25 works and it's easier to apply a blanket policy as otherwise you get people in the queue saying 'you didn't ask him/her'. And having also worked in a supermarket sometimes it's just easier to apply it to everyone.

I was almost in tears last week as I'd gone to the supermarket to get my dad some wine for his birthday, I was incredibly nervous as I haven't been going out much. Went to a checkout where a girl I went to school with worked, she asked me for ID.

I didn't have it - I'm 30 and haven't been IDd for years.

She wouldn't sell it to me, despite knowing I'm the same age as her, so I had to go home and grab my passport and go back. I was a nervous wreck and in tears by the time I got home, and actually went to another shop .. and wasn't IDd anyway.

It's crazy. I don't look under 25, my grey hairs make me look much older than I am!

I failed an internal test purchase a few years ago (one of five stores in the region to fail with that particular test purchaser I may add), in my disciplinary letter from head office they suggested I adopt a "Challenge 30" policy she also thought I was in my late teens when I was 23 at the time which just goes to show how tricky it can be to judge people's ages.

The age judgment point just reminded me that I was asked for ID when I bought a 12A DVD when I was about 20. Fair enough if it was an 18 or even a 15 if she was being extra cautious but there was no way I looked 11!

This isnt the point of your thread but it drives me mad when someone asks for ID, the customer doesn't have any but the cashier puts it through anyway... do your bloody job. You had the balls to ask so carry it through

I worked in waitrose when I was younger and they were strict, yes sometimes it gets silly like the lady above with her 13yo brother but i once had someone from trading standards come through my till, I asked for ID, they didnt have any and tried to persuade me but I stood firm even though it was super intimidating as a 20yo. So glad I did cos I would have been in big trouble

Also please dont make life more difficult for someone who asks, if you dont have ID just roll your eyes, smile and leave the alcohol

Some of the situations I had to manage as a shop worker:

"I know they're 18" yes you might but the 22 year old in the queue behind them might not.

"I know they're 18" I've been to the pub with them, but they used a fake ID to get in.

"I know they're 18" I went to school with them but they were a few months below me.

Challenge 25 is to protect the workers. Just carry ID with you if you wish to purchase age restricted items I can't see the issue, honestly.

If a staff member misinterprets the (honestly vague and difficult to interpret) rules they are asked to implement and refuses the same, I'll just go in later with ID, or sans teenager.

The staff need a framework. If it's just "ID whoever you think is under 18" it leaves room for error and misunderstanding.

@PattyPan

That's because Challenge 25 applies to all age restricted products, so they have to ID if you look under 25 and want to buy an age restricted product.

Yabu. Why should the cashier pay a fine just because some adult dickhead buys alcohol for the underage?
It does happen you know!
Why should someone on minimum wage be liable??

Once I had a test purchase on the games machines in the pub I worked at. Got called into the office to ask why I didn't ID him. Asked them to pull up the CCTV and showed them, there was absolutely no way he was young enough to need Id-ing, he was closer to 30. Obviously I wasn't going to ID him, and nor would anyone else have! Luckily enough, everyone agreed with me and the regional manager had it overturned (he was actually 27 as it turned out and we implemented Challenge 21) but it was extremely frustrating to be put in that position.

Totally agree. The rules seemed designed for morons with no common sense. It would be a bloody pain not to be able to take a teenager to do the big weekly shop because you can't buy wine.

My work colleague took in a parcel. They needed ID to prove she was over 18, she’s 62 and looks 62. She had no ID and the delivery guy was arguing with her. She made up a date of birth 1982.
Just no common sense.

I work in a supermarket and agree some of the rules are getting ridiculous.

But we do have to ID entire groups if buying at the same time, we are personally fined if we don't. If it's clearly a parent and child then you don't need to ID the young adult. Plus there is the potential of buying for someone else where we can get fined too, which is especially unfair as it's impossible to tell.

We had a customer inform us about someone who was buying cigarettes for underage teenagers and had to refuse service to that person.

The rules are annoying, but we don't have a choice but to be strict.

Although I should point out, staff are not allowed to ask you to remove your mask for ID purposes.