To think challenge 25 rules can be silly.

[Balleu]

I used to work in a supermarket before I went to uni and I would regularly help on checkouts despite mostly working on the shop floor.
I saw a lady getting ID'd today for buying alcohol with her teenage daughter.
The lady was refused as her teenage daughter had no ID.

But it got me thinking about the challenge 25 training I had and the ridiculousness of the 'rulezzzz'

For example,
I remember being told to ID even those who work in the shop who are older than 18 but don't look it.

For example, on produce there were young males who were between 18-19. Whenever they came to my till, I had to use the same line
"Sorry I know you're over 18 but I have to ask for ID because you look under 25".

And this was the same with people I knew in everyday life. So an old schoolfriend came in, I knew he was 20 but had to apologise and ask because he looked under 25. Even though I knew he was over 18!

And also, I was on checkout sometimes but not often, so therefore I didn't have many opportunities to ID people as I was mainly on the shop floor.
Nevertheless, I had a scalding off the checkout supervisor as it came up that I had "only" ID'd 4 people in a month (we have an individual checkout number to signin when going on the tills which keeps track).
I explained to him that i've rarely been called onto the tills and clearly when I was on the till I didn't feel the need to ID anybody.
But apparantly this wasn't good enough and I was told to start IDing more people

AIBU to think that, yes of course there are big fines associated with mistakes, but often challenge 25 rules are over the top?

Stellaris22

Due to Covid 19 restrictions, the legislation is such that NO ONE in the UK has to wear a face covering in private areas, outdoor areas or indoor areas if they can provide exemption status. Some people may not be in a position to state their exemption status. I am confident of standing up in any UK Court and providing professional witness corroboration for those who may require it.

In plain speak: many people require professional assistance. I'm happy to provide personal help if my understaff don't want to help.
UK law states that face coverings are NOT mandatory for everyone.

Real world examples:

Autistic 18 year old (Mum told us his age)
Autistic 12 year old (age guess)
Woman fleeing domestic violence.
Young man fleeing public violence.
Suicidal man.
Suicidal woman.
Woman diagnosed with anxiety (Nice. Wealthy. Gave tips on fabulous eateries)
Asthmatic man.

@Balleu

And just to clarify: I am not saying people shouldn't be ID'd. I am saying that some of the challenge 25 rules are ridicilous.

How ridiculous does this sound.

Police: Your store has just failed challenge 25

Manager: what happened?

Police: we sent in a 23 year old who looks under 25 and they weren't ID'd.

But that 23 year old is of legal age to buy alcohol and maybe the cashier could tell they were over 18..

One of my DC used to be Think 25 secret shopper as a student job. They had strict rules to try and make it fair, so they were meant to look 18 plus or minus a year and clearly under 25. They only used 18/19 year olds, they had to dress in a way that didn't indicate they were over 18 or make them look older eg be clean shaven, wear casual clothes, not work attire or going out type wear, no university logos, no visible tobacco products in pockets etc

I take it as a positive...I got ID’d recently and I’m 31. I’ve been ID’d consistently since old enough to buy things that need it cause I’m short and I guess I look young. The day the stop asking for ID I’ll know I’ve got old!

I really don't understand the bit about having a child with you. I've been ok so far with my 7yr old with me, but when he's 12 will he be expected to 'have ID'? and what does that mean anyway? if we had his passport with us to show his name and that he's 12 would it then be ok for me to buy wine?
It just doesn't make any sense at all.

I got asked for ID when buying a scratch card the other day because of challenge 25 (although you only have to be 16 to buy a scratch card!). I'm 31 next week. Although I appreciate that I look younger than my age, I truly don't believe that I could potentially look younger than 25 and most definitely not younger than 16!

I’ve also been ID’d for a lottery ticket when with my husband and baby. Husband was paying and I didn’t have my purse or anything on me so didn’t have ID.
Now if we are all in a shop (not exactly often with covid) and alcohol (or other contraband) is being purchased I go and ‘put the baby in the car’ so I don’t get ID’d.
I don’t blame the cashiers at all as I wouldn’t want them to risk their job for me, but the system is so stupid.
If the person paying has ID that should be enough really.

@Stellaris22

It really is a lot more stressful working in a supermarket than most people realise.

We are effectively enforcing laws with no security or help. As if challenge 25 wasn't bad enough with all the scenarios that can happen (test shoppers, buying for someone underage) we also have to enforce mask wearing and monitoring numbers in store.

So please, please don't get angry at retail staff if you get ID'd. It's a cliche, but accept it as a compliment!

I'm always polite. But I'll only accept it as a compliment when (our local) stores update their training or the government introduces standardised ID cards. As a disabled person the only ID I have that our local stores accept is a passport. I'm not talking that with me every time I buy alcohol on the offchance I get ID'd! I used to have one of those proof of age cards you could buy but it was usually rejected as it wasn't a passport or driving licence .

@PillowPrincess

No skin of my nose to produce an ID.

Well it is off mine! No way am I going to carry my passport around with me. If someone is genuinely stupid enough to think that 52 year old me looks under 25 then that’s fine with me but I would walk away and get my goods elsewhere. I generally get my alcohol online fortunately.

The bit I find silly is “you might be planning on giving it to your son” .... well so what if I am? It’s legal for my son to drink alcohol in our home as he is over 5 years old.

I appreciate how difficult it is for shop workers but it can be ridiculous. I get asked for ID when buying paracetamol all the time - I'm admittedly a young looking 30 but quite clearly over 16.

I also once got asked for ID when buying petrol, that one was insane. What would they have done if I didn't have any? Remove it from my car? Call the police because I presumably wouldn't be legally old enough to drive?

I've seen this when a 30 year old disabled person was id'd in a pub buying alcohol much to her father's annoyances (a family member). With some conditions it is more difficult to tell the age especially if the come with behaviour differences too. The under 25 thing is just subjective and places so much on the responsibility to the seller and in the case above could be seen (and whilst it wasnt by me but was by others) as disability discrimination. Especially since they may not just carry a driving licence as a matter of course. And one of the reasons I approve of universal id cards

DH had to provide ID to a delivery driver for some knives we'd bought. He's 53 and looks every bit of it

But I do understand businesses and their staff wanting to cover themselves

Thanks purplehoodie for highlighting the exact rubbish attitude we shopworkers have to deal with. It's people like you who cause unnecessary stress to key workers, but keep abusing us with your entitled attitude while we serve you your essential goods.

@TerribleLizard ah interesting, thank you! I was always given the impression it was a legal limit. I was once ID’d for matches on a home delivery and they’re not age restricted either - I guess some shops are just a bit OTT.

the small inconvenience it is for somebody to whip out their driving license But it's not "the small inconvenience of whipping out their driving license" is it? It's the major inconvenience of going all the way home to collect passport or id and then coming back out again. Not all driving licenses have photo id, and a passport is too important a document for me to want to carry it round on me in case someone wants to check it. We aren't required to carry id cards in this country therefore no system should be built around the idea that everyone has photo id in their pocket.

One of the problems is the deliberate making of jobs process driven, so that people are given rules that they obey to the letter, with no room for common sense. This enables widens the number of people who you could employ in such a job and therefore drives down the wages. And incidentally drives down job satisfaction as people realise their skills and abilities aren't being used, and they're getting flak every day for implementing restrictive and apparently nonsensical rules

I’ve never been rude about it, but it’s patronising when people say it’s a compliment. It’s insensitive to tell me to enjoy the compliment after refusing to sell me calpol for the sick baby I have with me, meaning I have to go all the way home, and bring the baby out again in the cold, so I can get my passport. I doubt most people in their early 20s are pleased to be told they look like a school kid, either.

Large companies are very much at fault for leaving frontline staff with no support or autonomy, but not providing a simple way to speak to anyone else. Same as customer support call centres - it is rubbish that people make a fuss when it’s not your fault, but often the company are actively using their staff to fob people off, and the customer must either put up with it or make a fuss. Some staff go their own merry way, though, and must be an HR nightmare. One woman shouted at me that she could call the police because I was committing a crime, trying to purchase alcohol as I had no ID. I was 30.

AIBU to think that, yes of course there are big fines associated with mistakes, but often challenge 25 rules are over the top?

A challenge policy, and it's use is a mandatory condition of getting and keeping an alcohol licence.
So serving someone under 25, but over 18, without ID, means the law has not been broken, but the terms of the alcohol licence have, because the policy hadn't been adhered to. You prove that the policy is adhered to by producing a list of challenged or refused sales - and there actually needs to be a list to prove that, hence asking you to ID people you know are 18 etc - it's to provide the evidence that the store is using the policy.
Failing to adhere to the terms of the license (by not being able to provide evidence that you're using challenge 25 for example) leads to sanctions on the license, fines and ultimately the loss of a licence if you persist. As well as personal concequences for the named licence holder. Even when no laws have been broken by an underage/proxy sale taking place, you can still break the terms that the license is granted under.
But, the majority of people don't actually know enough about licensing laws to understand the above, and will just rant on about 'common sense' unfortunately the licensing team are only interested in facts, not common sense, and if the premises loses their license completely, then they won't be getting any booze from there full stop.
Totally agree that it's a box ticking, arse covering exercise, but one I'm going to continue to do in order to keep the licensing team happy, the ones who say if I can sell alcohol from the premises at all or not.

@PattyPan I think it’s quite a widespread misunderstanding because of store policy. I think it should be made very clear that it’s the company’s policy, not the law as people who don’t have ID may be put off from buying medicine.

Walmart here require ID for anyone who looks to be under 40. I was thrilled at the age of 41 to be asked for ID.

Some stores require it for all purchases of alcohol, even if the customer is 80. Challenge 25 seems lax in comparison.

I don’t get what you are complaining about. You were being paid by the store to do a job. It takes seconds to ask and doesn’t cause any physical exertion. What’s the big deal? It’s no different from asking how people want to pay. It’s just a question that forms part of the whole transaction.

@MereDintofPandiculation

the small inconvenience it is for somebody to whip out their driving license But it's not "the small inconvenience of whipping out their driving license" is it? It's the major inconvenience of going all the way home to collect passport or id and then coming back out again. Not all driving licenses have photo id, and a passport is too important a document for me to want to carry it round on me in case someone wants to check it. We aren't required to carry id cards in this country therefore no system should be built around the idea that everyone has photo id in their pocket.

But nobody is forced to buy alcohol. It’s a personal choice. If you choose to buy alcohol then you are responsible for making sure you have with you what you need to be able to do so. Anyone old enough to be buying alcohol is old enough to make sure they have some form of ID with them.

We rejected the idea of having compulsory ID cards with justification and something I support. Challenge 25 for a small proportion of people and purchases is not nice but a better thing than ID cards.

I agree it's ridiculous, I got ID'd in sainsburys a few weeks ago. I'm 37. Unfortunately I'd left my ID at home that day.

I was with my mother who is 68 and she said hand it to me I'll buy it and the cashier wouldn't let us.

I understand they have to ask some people but ffs I do not look under 25

I don't understand why it would be 25.Can't you buy alcohol at 18.Maybe it's me not understanding but seems daft to me

Stellaris22

You need to up your reading comprehension.

I am in agreement with you. And in fact am a senior member of staff.