CAHMS - Absolutely Fuming

[BathshebaKnickerStickers]

Sorry, wide awake in the middle of the night because I’m so angry.

My dd - almost 17 - was urgently referred to CAHMS last month because of suicidal feelings and plans.

She had an initial appointment quickly which was an appointment with a very nice nurse to do a background and initial information about how she was feeling and why etc.

She was then posted out an appointment for March.

Sorry, school and the gp both said sorry March is too far away, she needs seen before then, GP intervened and she was due a virtual appointment on Monday afternoon. She was told it wot be done via FaceTime.

She took the afternoon off school so she could be at home for this appointment.

No-one contacted her.

I asked her if she had maybe missed an invitation to a “virtual room” that she had supported to join at her appointment time - no all she had was a text confirming the time - no “joining” link.

No-one contacted her by FaceTime - I’m going to FaceTime someone it’s essentially an outgoing call I make to their number...

No-one phoned her - they have her mobile.

No-one phoned me - they have my mobile

If it was a virtual room that she was supposed to join rather than a FaceTime call, surely when she didn’t jjoin someone should have called - it’s a new system so they must understand that maybe people haven’t used it.

This is a suicidal 16 year old who now has had 2 urgent GP referrals in 6 weeks - the initial one and then this appointment being brought forward.

No joining instructions if it was a virtual room rather than a direct FaceTime call.
No call to her to find out where she was if she had failed to join
No call to me to find out where she was (she was of course sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring.

I am beyond furious. Obviously calling them first thing tomorrow but expecting to be told there is nothing they can do now until mid January or whenever.

Are they so jaded that she is “just another suicidal 16 year old”?

In some cases you don't just "call" CAMHS though, it took me ages to extract the actual number that gets to the reception office of the clinic where our psychologist is based, it's never in paperwork. General contact number might take you anywhere.

IME CAMH's is not fit for purpose they don't have the resources or urgency.
I gave up on them years ago. I save a small amount weekly towards a psychologist/psychiatrist fund when DD is overwhelmed.

We've had similar problems with camhs. Just constant stream of let downs and poor communication. My child has had two suicide attempts since April. All we've managed to get from them is a clinic nurse assessment over the phone. Nurse was really apologetic but was honest that we'd be lucky to get therapy etc within a year!!. My child then tried to hang herself. She needs medicating but the medics won't Medicate until she engages in therapy, she can't start therapy until she gets a partnership worker and there's a year long waiting list in my area for these.

I just blasted up everyone and everything I could think of looking for help. And it was Barnados charity that gave us so much help. They even funded a private therapist for a while, some support sessions for me so I could understand and support my child. It's really helped in the meantime while we wait.

Hope you get things sorted x

@lollipoprainbow

I would be fuming too, some great advice to go private ! Not everyone can afford to and I wouldn't think it unreasonable to expect a mental health service to help

It isn't unreasonable. But raising and eyebrow at the situation isn't going to fix resources and make the situation better. The situation is absolutely dire, so let's call a spade a spade. If she has the option to go private then that's the best thing she can do.

OP I'm so sorry you've been let down. There's no excuse for your DD to have been treated like this, even if something massive happened making the call impossible, she should've had an immediate notification letting her know and arranging what they can do until they find another appt for her.

I would suggest doing some research into how to support a child with mental health issues. Unfortunately I know there's little you can do clinically until CAHMS help but in the meantime, there's small things you and your DD can try to keep her head above the surface.

She may benefit from distractions- perhaps try to get out for a walk every day or plan an activity for her to look forward to after school and at the weekend. This doesn't have to be costly, it could be promising her a festive movie night or a nighttime drive to hunt for Christmas lights. I know these seem trivial and they won't cure your daughter, but spending time with her and keeping her busy even if she's desperately miserable, proves you still want to spend time with her and that she's worthy of having nice things which is what she needs to be reminded of.

Best of Luck, OP. You're doing your best and you will both come out of this okay, I'm just sorry it's such a horrible process.

CAMHs depending on location seem to be on a vicious circle, they can only get involved at extreme crisis points due to lack of resources and more cases get extreme because there is no early support. DS2 was removed from CAMHs because I didn’t answer two withheld number calls. I didn’t answer the calls as DS2 who requires 2:1 support currently has no school, no respite so answering unexpected unknown calls is not my priority. Hopefully they will have a solution for you today.

CAMHS were ridiculously underfunded before this year and will have been even more stretched by the pandemic.
DD (similar age, not quite so bad MH) was referred in May and we are still waiting. In Sept we asked for private referral, even that was a 2 month wait.
When we did get to see a private psychiatrist though (via zoom)...
...the best £550 we have spent this year, prescribed meds, sleep and mood slowly improving, even starting to think about schoolwork now.

Definitely wouldn’t be FaceTime.

NHS is very strict about the approved platforms for video.

I would expect it was teams.

Saw this yesterday.

@Bluegreen70

I don't really know what difference you expect CAHMS to make, anyway. They can't change how she is thinking and feeling.

That’s like saying “I don’t know what difference you expect the Oncologist to make- they can’t cure Cancer”. What a ridiculous comment. OP my DD has had poor MH since 14, now 23. You should be able expect CAHMS to help, despite what this poster said. Unfortunately in my experience they are awful. As is it all. Can you afford to go private? I really couldn’t but have gone into debt 3 times in the last 9 years to pay fir private for my DD, as what was offered was so useless. In my opinion, it has saved her. If you can’t afford it, you will need to be her advocate at all times- it’s a long battle but you clearly love her dearly and your support is the best thing. I wish you well, OP.

Rethink and Mind were a valuable support for my family. MH charities know the systems, their pitfalls and where to look for additional support.

CAMHS and adult mental health services have been run into the ground over the last decade and they were not well set up before that.

Complain as pp have described but If you have any means to go private for mental health I would do it (and have done in the past). Its so far down the "cinderella" category of public provision it barely exists, its a disgrace in what is supposed to be a public health care system.

I don't really know what difference you expect CAHMS to make, anyway. They can't change how she is thinking and feeling

I'd expect them to provide mental health care and treatments within their scope. CAHMS is so woeful in many areas it would be more honest to simply say this country no longer provides mental health care on the NHS, so take out insurance.

My experience with CAMHS in our area (admittedly a 3-4 years ago now) was that it took ages to actually get seen, but once in the system they were very good - regular F2F appointments, various group courses for anxiety management, etc. Even one for parents. This was Norfolk and our CAMHS goes up to age 24 before they get pitched into the adult mental health service - which is nothing like as good. DD had the same MH nurse for about 18 months and also saw the same psychiatrist every 3 months or so. (We were lucky very though because the first 6 months she did see a couple of different MH nurses and docs and didn’t get the chance to build up a rapport, which we found so important.). When he left to move into adult MH she decided to disengage with the service rather than start again with someone new. We had a six month window during which she could re-engage if needed without another referral from GP. The first AD she tried wasn’t effective so she was switched and that helped massively. Not sure if the situation is the same now, but they could only prescribe Sertraline or Fluoxetine to under 18s.

I just wanted to let you have a more positive experience of CAMHS Op. It varies hugely depending on where you are, although covid has obviously made a huge difference. Good luck to you and your DD.

Joeblack- I agree the comment by Bluegreen was awful. We should expect support and treatment for mental health conditions, and also have compassion for those experiencing this or supporting others.
Unfortunately, as others have said, provision is very poor and often people need to fund private treatment (very expensive) . Please push to get a management plan in place

The mental health support in general is shocking in this country. Sadly it seems unless it’s on fire, (even then there is a delay) there is little money in the fund to support prevention and help.

My 17 daughter suicidal, couldn’t get access to anything urgently as she hadn’t actually tried multiple times. We paid for a private psychiatrist assessment- was done via zoom, with a 2 month waiting list and cost £600. But it’s the best money we ever spent gave us a starting point. We don’t want medication unless she gets worse.
We now pay privately for 121 weekly therapy , it’s financially hard for us but least she is getting the help. Sadly, we found out recently that she is self harming and CAHMS have been helpful and she now has a online apt next week.
It’s hard in general as funding is so poor in all areas and I wish there was a magic wand, help should be available long before these kids have harmed themselves. But even privately waiting lists are long - I worry what the numerous lockdowns will do to these young people and effect it has on their mental health. I’ve seen my already anxious daughter spiral and the November lockdown lead to self harming. No amount of me supporting and being there for her, paying privately stopped that.

My DS got an urgent referral and was seen face to face by a CAHMS while we were in tier 4, they don’t fuck about when dealing with suicidal children in my experience so it could be that they’re not taking it as seriously as they should be? In which case I’d call up and kick up one hell of a fuss, absolutely no one has the right to decide whether your daughter is able to wait another few weeks or months if she’s actively suicidal.

As she’s 16 her asking for a self referral to the community psychiatric nurse might be a faster way to be seen and treated? They can offer amazing support, even to 16 year olds. I hope she’s ok

You got some harsh answers upthread, which won't have helped you OP. some people really do need to read the room better

That first appt was a triage appointment. CAHMS are brilliant at doing these really, really quickly so they can meet their waiting list target. Then they place you onto a waiting list to be seen, but because the initial target has been met that doesn't count. That's sneaky fuckery in my book and gave me a bad taste in my mouth to start off with.

However the psychologist we saw (eventually) was incredibly supportive and useful. They can help, it's just getting into their system. I suspect human error or a staff member off sick/isolating... I hope you get an answer today.

OP I am so sorry you are going through this. I work in this field and am again sorry but it seems this is the norm for CAMHS.
If school have no counsellor I would suggest private if at possible for you. Nspcc I have found helpful in the past , for chat and advice.
Headspace and calm app , although I realise doesn’t solve cause of her feelings however just in the moment can be useful to distract her.
Good luck to your Dd, I hope today brings the help she needs.💜

The resourcing question is interesting for two reasons. CAMHS was in crisis by the 2010; I think the Lamb report was published in 2014. Prior to 2010 Labour was in office for 13 years so it really irks me that the finger is always pointed at a political party.

Secondly for those suggesting the answer is to secure private care, it isn't that easy Many therapists don't want to take on adolescent clients who are actively harming and CAMHS/GPs refuse to recommend because they don't know outcomes which in itself is an interesting point when xamhs often closes a case as soon as therapy starts.

If I were starting from scratch again with dd and looking for a therapist I'd Google some of the charities CAMHS are subcontracting to, and then Google some of their senior staff. You will likely find out that they are on the net with their own private practices which they do 1/2 days a week. Organisations like Relate are also helpful and means tested. If you do take this route please be aware that therapists are a bit like shoes and you have to try a few to get the right fit.

In the context of finding a private psychiatrist ime they also want to try therapy first. DD had a private psychiatrist and saw her regularly for about 18 months. Some of our costs were covered by BUPA but not those relating to ADHD which was underlying my dd's illness. To engage fully with the private psychiatric route I would say for a tier three yp one is looking at minimum costs of about £5k with insurance. I don't think dd would have been diagnosed through CAMHS as the wombat assigned to her after a crisis laughed when I told her of it "well now mum, I think she's a bit old for that at 17". Unbelievable!

I am aware that my local CAMHS was given an additional £2.3m in 2016 and blew it up the wall on an additional layer of bureaucracy and there was then an independent review set up between children's Services and the Commissioners. Add into the mix the number of acute hospital admissions to paediatric wards often over 2/3 nights at weekends because CAMHS only work 9-5 and think about the cost of that with local hospitals picking up that cost within a different NHS cost centre (although there's no money for CAMHS) and there is a very compelling argument for the NHS to start joining the dots.

Good luck Bathsheba and remember to put everything in writing.

Sadly this is the reality for many young people with mh conditions. Successive conservative governments have decimated mental health provisions.

Dear OP I wouldn’t rely on CAHMS to help. My dc was referred and finally got seen when they just turned 17, the minute they were approaching 18 they dismissed them from the service in a much much worse state than they entered. It’s one of my biggest regrets that I ever allowed dc to go anywhere near CAHMS. They were truly incompetent where we live. Also we tried medication that is not approved for under 18s with anxiety anxiety depression and I wish we hadn’t. The worse my dc became on the medication, the higher the dose they prescribed, what works well for adults doesn’t necessarily work for hormonal teenagers but they prescribe it anyway as they have little resources for any other options.

Go privately if you can afford to. Find a really good therapist your DD gets along with and invest in that. A good therapist is life changing.

have camhs offered any resources op? do they suggest any websites?

bluegreen are you for real?

I keep seeing you popping up on threads. Yesterday saying children should be locked in their rooms for 10 days. Today asking a worried mum what she expects CAHMs to do about this.

And you say you’re a teacher?! I seriously hope you’re allowed nowhere near kids.