CAHMS - Absolutely Fuming

[BathshebaKnickerStickers]

Sorry, wide awake in the middle of the night because I’m so angry.

My dd - almost 17 - was urgently referred to CAHMS last month because of suicidal feelings and plans.

She had an initial appointment quickly which was an appointment with a very nice nurse to do a background and initial information about how she was feeling and why etc.

She was then posted out an appointment for March.

Sorry, school and the gp both said sorry March is too far away, she needs seen before then, GP intervened and she was due a virtual appointment on Monday afternoon. She was told it wot be done via FaceTime.

She took the afternoon off school so she could be at home for this appointment.

No-one contacted her.

I asked her if she had maybe missed an invitation to a “virtual room” that she had supported to join at her appointment time - no all she had was a text confirming the time - no “joining” link.

No-one contacted her by FaceTime - I’m going to FaceTime someone it’s essentially an outgoing call I make to their number...

No-one phoned her - they have her mobile.

No-one phoned me - they have my mobile

If it was a virtual room that she was supposed to join rather than a FaceTime call, surely when she didn’t jjoin someone should have called - it’s a new system so they must understand that maybe people haven’t used it.

This is a suicidal 16 year old who now has had 2 urgent GP referrals in 6 weeks - the initial one and then this appointment being brought forward.

No joining instructions if it was a virtual room rather than a direct FaceTime call.
No call to her to find out where she was if she had failed to join
No call to me to find out where she was (she was of course sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring.

I am beyond furious. Obviously calling them first thing tomorrow but expecting to be told there is nothing they can do now until mid January or whenever.

Are they so jaded that she is “just another suicidal 16 year old”?

Are you sure they had all your DDs contact details. When this was arranged there must have been somebody to contact re the appointment. I think you should get involved with the arranging of appointments especially when it's all done by computer which I think is far more open to error.

Mental health is massively underfunded and at the moment who knows how many are off sick. One of my kids is a MH nurse, worked six straight days last week, 12 hr shifts, sickness levels are off the records, demands are off the record, many patients on the ward are covid positive. It is all unfair but at the moment I suspect they are doing their best.

Hi they have both her phone number and my phone number as they have contacted both of us.

I’ve just called back to see what happened and waiting on a call back

I’m in Scotland and my son’s CAMHS appointments have been via an NHS video call service called NearMe.

I’ve found CAMHS to be really helpful. The waiting time was awful, 18 months. My son has severe OCD and has started CBT with them and the psychologist he’s been seeing is really nice and patient (he also has autism which is making treatment hard). My son then had to be referred for a medication assessment but that was done as urgent and he was seen in 2 weeks. But honestly, CAMHS have made such difference. I was wary given how negative people are about the service but that’s not been our experience. I’m starting to see improvements in my sons OCD. I can call or email the psychologist if I need to and I have appointments with her without my son so she can help me know how to deal with my son.

Someone said earlier OP "pace yourself". My DD has been under CAMHS for 2 and a half years and she is much worse now than when she started; we are now fighting to get her discharged as they are blocking her access to a specialist service. Its completely frightening you have no agency and neither does your child.

This is what makes me so angry about this "its good to talk" shit, because mostly CAMHS want to shut their patients up - my DD has been ridiculed and talked over so many times, she told me this week she felt that she had to get out everything she wanted to say in one breath and that if she failed that would be it for that month. However, we've had equally poor service from private psychiatrists etc. We now have a new GP and she is lovely, she prescribes from 16 - some GP's can use discretion for this.

BTW this might help you OP - girls usually respond well to a medication that their mother has taken successfully e.g., if you are on setraline then she might do well on that. But I agree with previous posters if you can possibly afford it try private or ring your local MIND office and see what else is available in the voluntary sector in your area, youth counselling etc. But please don't think CAMHS are going to be much help and one fucked up appointment ...? That's nothing.

@ancientgran the biggest issue in CAMHS that can't be compared to adult MH is that they work 9am to 5pm and there is zero flexibility. Whilst I feel for your dd 6 straight shifts of 12 hours is unlikely to be the reality in CAMHS. If it were there would not be the access issues. I have been advised that there can't be more flexibility in my local trust because the camhs staff don't and won't work flexible hours. It would be inconvenient for them you see.

BTW I notice quite a few people saying they've had a better experience in Scotland. I work remotely for a children's charity in Scotland and I've found that services overall seem to be better up there? I could be wrong, but was interested to see other people's experiences.

This surely has the makings of a worthwhile mumsnet campaign. If your child had an open fracture and you were told there was a 6 month wait for NHS help there would be hell to pay. Why is this different??? Why should the parent be reduced to looking for help online? Would you think of YouTubing ‘how to set an open fracture?’. Why should the kids of people who can’t afford to go private have to suffer? And so many problems are small problems but by the time the 18 month wait for treatment is over they have multiplied massively. And these are kids. 18month wait for a 10 year old is 1/6th of their life. On a waiting list. It’s just nuts!

Hi OP, sorry that happened to you, CAMHS are not great in my experience. If you’re worried about her and think she might try to do something I would absolutely take her up to a&e and the crisis team will assess her. It’s not a nice experience but from own personal experience they do often kick start the ball rolling extremely fast.

I’m not sure why the GP is saying they can’t prescribe her anything because she’s 16? They can however I expect they’d rather have CAMHS opinion first which is obviously extremely unhelpful when they won’t get in touch.

Scotland. We waited to see someone for 3 months. They referred us for treatment. We waited 16 months for treatment, and this appointment only appeared after I complained to my MSP. Just diabolical. The entire way the system seems to work is relying on the majority of parents giving up and going private. Which is how it works out. I wouldn’t even bother joining the eating list next time, just go private straight away.

All CAMHS above btw

It's shit and I'm sorry you're going through this.

CAMHS is underfunded and overstretched. I know the bar for being seen in my area is incredibly high, and often appointments are delayed until people are told there's no point waiting anymore as they'll be in adult services before they're seen.

Are there any local mental health charities that have projects for young people that may be able to offer some support?

@RosesAndHellebores Whilst I feel for your dd Bit sexist there, do you assume all doctors are men as well?

6 straight shifts of 12 hours is unlikely to be the reality in CAMHS. If it were there would not be the access issues. I have been advised that there can't be more flexibility in my local trust because the camhs staff don't and won't work flexible hours. It would be inconvenient for them you see. My son (faint male nurse) is on a ward, I did mention that but the point is demand is high, sickness levels are high and they can't work miracles. We, as a society, need to spend more on mental health.

I think some Scottish health boards are better than others.

@Elvesaremagic fair enough; my experience is very second hand (Glasgow)

@ancientgran I reckon that MH nurses are much more efficient and effective than CAMHS, v. different on the wards.

There always seems to be announcements of money going into MH Services, but CAMHS needs a major overhaul - I don't think that cash is going to them and I suspect if it did, it wouldnt be used wisely. Actually we're all talking about CAMHS as one body here and of course its provided on a tender basis by health trusts. So I live in County A and CAMHS here is provided by a Health trust 20+ miles away in the next county.

@ancientgran my apologies. No intention to be sexist. I agree that we as a society need to spend more on mental health across the board but it would be helpful if CAMHS operated more flexible access hours.

My local NHS is getting 500 million for a new hospital. It will still be spending close to £900 on overnight admissions for CAMHS patients presenting to A&E because CAMHS only assess between 9am and 5am and if the one nurse assessing doesn't get to all the admissions in the county there is a 2nd and sometimes 3rd night funded often with an MH RN on a 1:1 basis because acute paed wards don't have the in-house expertise or time required. So if more money is made available the component parts have to join up better because the constant cry of no resources for early intervention makes no sense at all when the component parts are so badly organised that there is between £2k to £3k to spend on a largely unnecessary acute admission which arising from restrictive working practices and failure to provide more cost effective early interventions. It concerns me that therevis a clamour for more money when existing resources are so badly managed.

9am and 5pm.
My advice to the op remains: reco4d in writing every conversation and everything they say they will do along with the proposed time frame. Thereby providing a clear audit trail to counteract the slippery culture of "I think mum misunderstood".

Another thing, why is there a curtailment of CAMHS and other MH services during the pandemic? Are CAMHS and other MH workers not key workers within the NHS who should be maximising services? I thought we as a society had locked down to protect the NHS so they could protect us. Does that protection not extend to CAMHS?

Some of it needs to be about secure funding that is ongoing rather than one off Grant's.

I work for an adult service (so has different funding) and lots of the announcements for more funding go to places you might not expect or are only short term commitments. Most of the funding here goes to projects in third sector services that provide community wellbeing services.

Of then money "injected" is less than the amount costs have risen. Eg my teams injection of money in real word terms doesnt go any further and buys less than our budget 4 years ago.
Its also only a 2 year promise thus we cant commit to long term measures such as permanently employing Staff, setting up new services.

Mental health services have a real problem with short term projects being set up, money sunk into all the set up, and then only running for a short period as the funding disappears in the next budget/ next political administration.

So sorry to hear this - I can hear the desperation in your post. We're told all the time how important it is to reach out for help but when the professionals don't receive you what do you do and where do you go?

How come the GP can't prescribe? I'm coming up to 40 but I was given antidepressants in my teens back then. I had severe anxiety and depression but talking didn't help as tbh there wasn't any trauma behind it for me to talk about my brain is just wired differently

my apologies. No intention to be sexist. I'm sure you didn't intend to be but it is interesting how that is the immediate assumption.

We, as a society, need to spend more on mental health

But we also need to organise it better. The way in which mental health care is organised and managed (in particular by CAMHS) makes it more expensive to deliver and less effective. How does that help anyone?

Or to put it another way, how many hours of your son's working life does he spend trying to work around poor organisation and coordination across various fiefdoms? How many patients does he see at weekends/nights due to lack of coordinated availability from community services such as CAMHS?

Are CAMHS and other MH workers not key workers within the NHS who should be maximising services? I mentioned earlier that my son is a nurse on a mental health ward, he worked 6 x 12 hr shifts last week due to staff shortages. Covid is on the ward, patients and staff. I'm not sure how many hours you'd like him to do to maximise services.

@RosesAndHellebores

Certainly my team are providing a higher level of contacts than previously, most are virtual but urgents where needed are face to face.

There has to be some consideration of covid risks as if I for example tested positive this week, I would have had contact with multiple different bubbles and schools etc

As much as protect the nhs is cheesy it's a real thing. My team for example had 4 members of staff off from one positive case in the team. If that team member had been working as usual then there would have been wider implications.

All teams are struggling with staff having to be at home isolating, looking after isolating kids, high levels of staff vulnerability etc.

In my case our community team not only has reduced staff due to the above but has also had lots of redeployment to cover things like acute mh wards

Yes, it's as equally interesting as when CAMHS staff refer to patients mothers as "mum" and ask "you mum?" but I imagine they don't intend to be purposefully reductive. . But no I'm not mum, I have the full power of speech and a name.