CAHMS - Absolutely Fuming

[BathshebaKnickerStickers]

Sorry, wide awake in the middle of the night because I’m so angry.

My dd - almost 17 - was urgently referred to CAHMS last month because of suicidal feelings and plans.

She had an initial appointment quickly which was an appointment with a very nice nurse to do a background and initial information about how she was feeling and why etc.

She was then posted out an appointment for March.

Sorry, school and the gp both said sorry March is too far away, she needs seen before then, GP intervened and she was due a virtual appointment on Monday afternoon. She was told it wot be done via FaceTime.

She took the afternoon off school so she could be at home for this appointment.

No-one contacted her.

I asked her if she had maybe missed an invitation to a “virtual room” that she had supported to join at her appointment time - no all she had was a text confirming the time - no “joining” link.

No-one contacted her by FaceTime - I’m going to FaceTime someone it’s essentially an outgoing call I make to their number...

No-one phoned her - they have her mobile.

No-one phoned me - they have my mobile

If it was a virtual room that she was supposed to join rather than a FaceTime call, surely when she didn’t jjoin someone should have called - it’s a new system so they must understand that maybe people haven’t used it.

This is a suicidal 16 year old who now has had 2 urgent GP referrals in 6 weeks - the initial one and then this appointment being brought forward.

No joining instructions if it was a virtual room rather than a direct FaceTime call.
No call to her to find out where she was if she had failed to join
No call to me to find out where she was (she was of course sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring.

I am beyond furious. Obviously calling them first thing tomorrow but expecting to be told there is nothing they can do now until mid January or whenever.

Are they so jaded that she is “just another suicidal 16 year old”?

[quote Wannakisstheteacher]@wheresmykimchi riiiiight. OK then 😂😂😂. You probably shouldn't be comparing the stories you've heard of the NHS then as it makes you sound like a bit of a hypocritical twat.[/quote]
Thanks for the name calling, could you quote me where I've compared stories?

If you're referring me to say I've heard good and bad (I have ). I mean in terms of some people had great treatment and some people didn't. A bit different to you claiming that those two teens are the same and OP is just being ridiculous and doesn't care enough about her child to spend money....regardless ... I think you'll find my comments about good and bad was in relation to me saying that people shouldn't be doing that as it has jack shit to do with the OP.

You seem to think it is all very black and white when like most things in life there are shades of grey

That massive variation in quality is part of the problem though isn't it?

In the context of CAMHS I've genuinely never come across anyone with good experience in this part of the country within the last decade. It was hardly gold standard before that.

These are not problems simply solved by throwing money at them, there are fundamental issues with the organisation of health care which need modernising or simply improving both for the benefit of patients and the staff working in health care.

@C8H10N4O2

You seem to think it is all very black and white when like most things in life there are shades of grey

That massive variation in quality is part of the problem though isn't it?

In the context of CAMHS I've genuinely never come across anyone with good experience in this part of the country within the last decade. It was hardly gold standard before that.

These are not problems simply solved by throwing money at them, there are fundamental issues with the organisation of health care which need modernising or simply improving both for the benefit of patients and the staff working in health care.

But thats not the point PP is making. We are talking about people saying that money is no object.

For some people it wouldn't be as easy as 'giving up their Christmas dinner '. For some people it would be ending up losing their house and still not being able to 'fix' the problem.

@Wheresmykimchi If you're referring me to say I've heard good and bad (I have ) That's the point isn't it, we all have experiences but that doesn't mean that experience is the definitive one because other people can have a difference experience or even like my kids on the same ward only months apart and the experience was chalk and cheese.

[quote ancientgran]**@Wheresmykimchi* If you're referring me to say I've heard good and bad (I have )* That's the point isn't it, we all have experiences but that doesn't mean that experience is the definitive one because other people can have a difference experience or even like my kids on the same ward only months apart and the experience was chalk and cheese.[/quote]
Exactly. PP is being obtuse.

CAHMS is shit. Absolutely pointless service. My son attempted suicide. He was sectioned and then placed back under CAHMS when he got out. I told them I thought he had autism and asked for them to arrange an assesssment. They refused. They said there was nothing wrong with him. Long story short he’s now in prison on a 4 year sentence for a violent assault. He’s been seen by a psychiatrist in there and guess what, he is autistic after all as well as suffering with bipolar and personality disorder.
So much for “nothing wrong with him” fucking CAHMS my arse.

Private treatment incredibly expensive. We have paid over £10,000 for a private psychiatrist and DBT treatment for the last 9 months. That is not something a lot of families can just cancel Christmas dinner for and put on a credit card.

Treatment isn’t acute, a couple of visit and a prescription and off you go. Treatment takes months, even years. Medication needs to be reviewed and it can take a while to find something that works.

CAHMs is not working as it should, what is so frustrating is that spending the money on early intervention and support would probably save the NHS overall.

I don't work in CAHMs but I do work in adult services, doing CBT. All our appointments are currently either telephone or video (and we use attend anywhere). They definitely should have given you the info on the platform before the appointment (personally email a link), it's a clear oversight but fingers crossed it goes smoothly for the next appointment. Sadly all services are very stretched in my opinion, and if the risk doesn't appear high (e.g an attempt at suicide or clear plans and no safety reassurances given, no evidence of future planning) the response is never urgent. I would urge your daughter to be as honest as possible about these thoughts and plans and hopefully she will get the support she needs.

I think it's massively frustrating and sad that teens , particular people, have to attempt to commit suicide before anything will be done. As PP said , if intervention was better ,the surface wouldnt be so stretched.

My daughter is 17 and we've waiting over 3 years for Cahms, In my experience all appointments are over teams, they send out a email with confirmation letter of appointment and any additional forms etc they need filling in

Also don't know what area your in but in my area our local council run something called the emotional health academy, they were fantastic for my dd (though different as it was anxiety/add) we self referred online had a call back the same day with a appointment 2 days later, dd then had the councillor go into her school weekly for meetings

Wanna you really don’t know what you’re talking about.

With going private parents don’t know what is causing the problem and can’t diagnose to choose the right treatment and professional. I have 2 under CAMHs with very different needs and professionals treating them.CAMHs tells you what your dc needs, they have meetings as a team to monitor and pull in treatment from other areas if needed.

Then you get the length and amount private costs. My ds had appalling treatment by CAMHs and we only got seen when I started a complaint. I paid £100 for a CP just to tell me what she thought he needed. The amount my dc have needed would run in the 20s of 1000s if not more. Who has that amount of spare cash and why are we paying into the NHS if our dc getting the treatment they need should cause severe debt?

Finally there are a lot of sharks out there and crap professionals. GPS don’t recommend so where do you find a good one?

@Onceuponatimethen I speak for the cahms service in my area then.

You're right, because I can tell you now, we were at breaking point 6 years ago. And
I don't know anyone else working in the service who would refer to this as anything LESS
than a national scandal. Surely it's not that much of a shocker to you? It appalls me every day, there's nothing anyone can do.

And they're all suicidal. If they're not having multiple suicide attempts plus ED admissions, then no, they're probably not on my radar. Might be on my caseload, but they're at the bottom of my 'ones to be worried about' list. That's what I mean about the bar being so high. In an area where there is so much demand, the 'bar' for concern gets higher and higher.

Yep. It's awful, it's not fair, it's not good enough. But there's too many children and not enough practitioners. In other words, the budget doesn't meet the needs of the service. Simple as that unfortunately. Think I've said enough so I'll leave it at that.

@xmaspuzzlenc I don’t have a teen and no personal experience of a child needing mh support so how would I or anyone who doesn’t have family member with mh needs, isn’t a service user/a professional know?

What I’m troubled by is how we got to this place where a professional can work in a service this bad and not be ashamed and then tell a mother of a suicidal teen that her child isn’t in a category deserving help and that she needs to lower her expectations.

Surely we should be empowering parents to advocate for their children, to push for the help they need and to complain about a shoddy service not fit for purpose.

But thats not the point PP is making. We are talking about people saying that money is no object

No. The OP's point was about having a child with serious mental health issues and the lousy service (or lack of it) being provided by CAMHS.

The money point to which I was responding was the assumption that anyone can opt into the private sector for the cost of a Christmas lunch tacitly pushing blame back onto the parents for the inadequate provision of mental health care.

Once it is exhausting being the parent you describe. Many parents simply won’t have the strength, confidence or ability to fight for their child. Many are also battling to support very sick children whilst trying to hold down jobs and parent other children. Dealing with CAMHs is a massive added stress akin to having an extra ill child. It scrapes you raw and is continuously there. The battle never stops. You are made to feel dreadful for being that parent. The stress of dealing with CAMHs impacts on the children parents are fighting for,it can’t not.Only the very strong and committed will get the support for their child that they need.Many such parents will be battling to stop their child plummeting day in and day out alongside this.What happens to the children without parents who through no fault of their own can’t do that?

I quite frankly have been staggered at the level of disorganisation, arrogance, secrecy and lack of empathy within CAMHs. In our area not one parent or professional I know had a good thing to say about them. I work in education, schools are sick of them. It is a national disgrace and I echo the previous poster who said there needs to be a piece of investigative journalism into the service.It goes beyond funding.

The ineptitude, discrimination and secret case closing without notification of my child alongside holding him in limbo facilitated him to develop a significant mental illness. This cost him a year in school,made the battle 10 times worse,impacted our jobs,impacted a sibling who is now sucking up CAMHs provision and ultimately will be costing the taxpayer a huge amount more.

It can’t go on.

@BathshebaKnickerStickers I'm so sorry for your experience. I'm a Clinical Psychologist and I have worked on community CAMHS and they are shit. As people have said, it's not the money, more the utter lack of organisation. I left a couple of years ago to work in inpatient CAMHS. I feel that once things hit crisis then the system is much better. Truth of the matter is that you need to have had a serious attempt on your life to be considered risky. I know it's awful to hear as a mother, hell, it's awful as a human being. Only advice I can give is if you are immediately concerned about keeping her safe, take her to A&E.

@ThisTooShallPa55 you appear to be me. My child was strangely discharged after a year of begging them to recognise her condition, the psychiatrist literally laughed in her face. She got so much worse in that time, so I went private. Then suddenly she hadn't been discharged, and I was a liar. Now they are fighting to stop DD being referred to specialist services.

I agree; investigative journalism seems the only way to go, the whole system is corrupt, its not a funding issue - for example referring my daughter to another service would cost them nothing.

It's usually via a link they send you.. There's no point being angry because your teen is not the only person needing support and they are probably overrun with the current situation.
Just try to get another appointment, be pushy not angry

Everybody is overwhelmed in the NHS, ditto education and I suspect other sectors. It is no excuse. This attitude of suck up a shit service and all its many failings is continuing the problem. If the same happened for an urgent appointment in any other area of the NHS it would be deemed unacceptable.

DishingOutDone that is interesting. Sounds like a stock phrase to excuse poor mismanagement, poor staff and a woeful service.Our story was frankly appalling and I am 100% certain has contributed to ds ending up as ill as he is and missing a year out of his life.

@BathshebaKnickerStickers I hope your dd got the support she needed.

I have only just realised this thread is in aibu. There is a topic in health just for Child Mental Health. It is often very supportive.

Please do write to your MP.