To choose new area to live based on grammar schools

[2021hopes]

I’m at a point where I can relocate to pretty much wherever I would like but stuck where to start. I have two primary age children and I’m a full time working professional but can work from home a lot. Need to get into city of London maybe 8-10 times a month.

I’ve lived in London all my life. Would ideally like to stay in the leafier parts, also happy to consider Surrey and Kent too. Would love outstanding schools and ideally plenty of grammar school options. Somewhere safe with things for us to do at the weekends and holidays.

A three bedroom semi or detached would be fab. I’m happy to try new builds too. Please help wise people of mumsnet where should we move too!

@Tootsietootie that’s interesting. I didn’t know the grammars left such a bad legacy for the other schools. And yes I didn’t think how the kids would be judged if they didn’t get in by those who did. So what was the experience for those of your children that didn’t?

@BrightlightsSmallvillage

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what happens if you move to an area with grammar schools and your secondary school age child has never taken the 11+? Can they just never attend one even if there was room?

The 11plus is specific to the school/ region so isn't transferable anyway. Some have later entry if there are places available.

Would you mind telling me why @Spasiba?

@BrightlightsSmallvillage

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what happens if you move to an area with grammar schools and your secondary school age child has never taken the 11+? Can they just never attend one even if there was room?

Most grammars are vastly oversubscribed so people stay on the waiting list into Y7 and beyond. However if your child has never sat the 11+ (because you moved from elsewhere/abroad) according to our closest grammar they can arrange for your child to sit the the relevant test (I guess adjusted for age? - I have no idea how CEM works)

Ahh so the idea is with 2 tier if the children don’t get in the grammar the alternative secondary modern is a good option? Did I get that right?
Not massively sure of the difference between secondary modern and comprehensives, although I think comprehensives are less desirable?

How can you tell if a school is a secondary modern or comprehensive?

@BrightlightsSmallvillage I'm not sure, but I know people have moved from out of area and gone straight into grammar school in Y9. I think previous school recommendation and maybe a test?

I live 50 minutes from London, with in cycling distance of girls/boys outstanding super selective grammar schools and an outstanding bilateral (comprehensive with grammar stream you can only get into with 11+) but also several "good" secondaries.
Lots of new builds, and 3 bed semis under 250k within walking distance of the station (or slightly more in the leafy suburbs)

The Midlands isn't that bad!

The above was for @Cookerhood

If you want Grammar schools Maidstone is probably your best bet. There are two girls grammar schools and two boys. Tonbridge has two girls grammar schools and one boys. But the boy's grammar is super selective so has applications from far and wide and to be sure of getting a place your son needs to get full marks in the Kent Test.

Lot's of people move to be near a grammar school, but you do need to do your research.

[quote 2021hopes]@Tootsietootie that’s interesting. I didn’t know the grammars left such a bad legacy for the other schools. And yes I didn’t think how the kids would be judged if they didn’t get in by those who did. So what was the experience for those of your children that didn’t?[/quote]
I think this must depend on area/your social circle. Most kids at DD’s primary didn’t get a place at one of the top consortium schools. DD did. She’s still in touch with lots of her old primary friends and there doesn’t seem to be any animosity or judgement, either way round. In fact the “norm” was that most went to one of the comprehensive schools. I can’t think of anyone who went private. But then the primary isn’t in a particularly posh area and most people round here don’t earn enough.

No OP, the secondary moderns are often dire. The top 25-30% will have been creamed off by the grammars. Comprehensives do not exist in Buckinghamshire or Kent.

@Cookerhood so if they don’t pass the grammar tests in Kent and Buckinghamshire the alternative schools are often dire? Yes when I decide i will view a selection of all schools and check out Ofsted, results etc.

@Wigeon the feel of the place is so important. It’s why I don’t want to live somewhere where everyone looks the same and thinks the same or judges

I would actively choose somewhere that didn’t have grammar schools. If your dc is academic but has a bad day on the day of the 11+ then they end up in a school with very few other academic kids. I have known it happen, and it’s a risk I would rather avoid.

Not massively sure of the difference between secondary modern and comprehensives, although I think comprehensives are less desirable

Comprehensives take everyone. There are some excellent comprehensives.
Not everywhere has grammar schools.

Some places have entrance exams for those that live a little further away as well as taking those in the immediate area

It stands to reason if the grammar schools cream off the the most able (tutored?) kids then the other schools will have lower attainments. I'd recommend you research the difference between comprehensives and secondary moderns, the former are generally better. They're not all 'sink comps'

@crowsfeet57 do you know if the Kent grammars have coaches which collect and drop off children from out of the area? The Essex grammars do where I live and I live quite far from them.

Thanks @Oblahdeeoblahdoe other than looking at exam results and Ofsted reports any tips on how to research between the schools? I’ll visit too obviously

Have a very serious look at private schooling, I doubt it's anything like you would expect. You seem to prioritise education over the quality of local pubs so I have a funny feeling you might move your position by the time they are ready.

I love Kent and Sussex, but don't forget Hampshire which has good London links too.

There are some OK non-grammar schools in Bucks but you'd need to live near them to get in - it's all the W's - Waddesdon, Wing, Wendover and Winslow all have decent secondaries.
The area of children getting in to Bucks grammars also extends beyond the Bucks boundaries. In previous years it has gone out to 20 miles so lots of Milton Keynes pupils could get in to either the Royal Latin or the Aylesbury grammars. The distance has shrunk in recent years but you could also take a look at other towns within 10 or so miles of a Bucks grammar and your children could take the 11+ as an out of county candidate and still have a decent chance of getting in on distance and still have the back up of a decent comp (proper comp). Towns that fit this are Brackley and Towcester for the Royal Latin in Buckingham and Tring, Leighton Buzzard or Thame for the Aylesbury grammars.

Thanks @pisspants never considered Bucks but been mentioned a few times now. Not sure if it’s too far out but worth looking into.

@oldshoeuk I do prioritise education over pubs . What is your experience of private school? Are they really snobby and elitist? Unfortunately my professional favours those privately educated but I was not and do not feel I am looked down upon by my peers (only maybe behind my back 🤔)

I live in Essex in a lovely countryside area 10 minutes drive from shoeburyness beach which my 2 kids love. We have very good schools here including a boy and girls grammar also grammers in westcliff and leigh on sea. House prices in my area aren't cheap I have a 4 bed was £480k 6 years ago, but there are lots of options and people are really great. There's a direct line to fenchurch Street which takes an hour.

2021 hopes what age are your children?
Some boroughs accept the vast majority of the children who pass the 11+ in their area, eg Poole, whereas others areas, eg Sutton, are able to accept the majority of children who do not live in the London borough of Sutton. You are able to look this information up. Please be aware of the pressure that is put on children in many of the grammar schools & the amount of self harming that happens. If you are after a multicultural school then Sutton grammars are predominantly non-white, whereas Sutton is predominantly white.

Was just going to come on and suggest Essex, we live in Thorpe Bay, but if I had your budget I'd probably live in Leigh on sea, the outlying villages are nice but DH couldn't be persuaded to not be able to walk/cycle to a station.
The grammars are excellent, Southend and Westcliff high schools, girls and boys, and rank very highly nationally. You'll get more for your money this side of the city and you have two mainlines into London decided and Liverpool Street. Another option could be Chelmsford area

*Fenchurch