DGs' bigoted views around DC

[motherxmas]

Just taken DC to DG for a quick socially distanced visit - them inside and us outdoors.

The topic turned to Brexit and essentually my parents came out with yet again a load of racist and bigoted views regarding certain Europeans etc...it got quite heated and i told them in no uncertain words that i did not want these things discussed around DC. My parents' response was they are entitled to say what they like and kids need to get used to it.

We ourselves are migrants and came here thirty years ago but over the last few years my parents have effectively adopted DM as their go to newspaper.

I am not happy with a put up and shut up approach but not sure how best to manage it.....

I wouldn’t have my kids around them tbh.

My DM shares quite offensive opinions and I certainly wouldn’t accept her saying any of them in front of little ones.

I would go no contact. It’s just not worth the risk having the DC exposed to such ignorance.

Of you don't want to go MC I'd suggest every time it comes up, say right it's time to go, and leave. DC will hear these views anyway so seeing you stand up against them is t more damaging than hearing them without challenge at school

Your parents are right in one way- they can indeed say what they like. But there will always be consequences for it, whoever you are. In this case, I’d have taken my children home and they wouldn’t be visiting again until they could guarantee they wouldn’t air their bigoted views in front of my children again.

YABU to continue to subject your children to this. They have every right to say what they want to say and you have every right not to listen to ot. Next you visit and they bring it up just leave. On the phone and they start their crap hang up. No warning. Not anything. Either they learn to keep their disgusting opinions out of your children's ears or they stop seeing their grandchildren. Choice is theirs

Older side of DHs family are racist, sexist, homophobic etc (is there a word for being all the discriminatory things old white english people can be?) I disagree every time, always tell them they're wrong. I refuse to be quiet because I dont want them to think it's acceptable, I dont want them to convince people around us, I dont want people to think I agree with them. And when our child is born I will make damn sure they dont think it's acceptable to say or think the things their older relative do.

PILs have actually really improved, they know not to be those things, they just seem to not always know when they're being those things. Like when they talk about "the gays" and which half of the relationship is "the woman" kind of stuff in a busy restaurant

Going against the grain here, I think the issue is whether you want a relationship with bigoted people. If you feel that, as an adult, the overall relationship is more important, then that's fine. The important thing is for your DC to see you pushing back and not accepting this crap. So that they a) hear the right answers from the people they trust most (you) and b) learn that challenging this stuff is important.

You also have the opportunity to talk about this stuff with them at home and in different scenarios and work it into their real life. Eg, ds heard something about Polish people etc etc. His best friend's parents are Polish. So it was a great opportunity to not only talk about how ridiculous these kind of comments are but to demonstrate it in person.

I feel no guilt saying things like, "Granny is so silly. Can you believe she thinks x or y?" and then discussing it when grandparents come up with stuff like this.

For GPs with no boundaries, remember the three Do's.

Do you love your grandchildren?
Do you want a relationship with them?
Do what you're fucking told.

My 2 older DC refused to see my mother due to her vile racist views. I certainly didn't encourage a relationship after that and also didn't want my youngest listening to it. The last time I saw my mother I went on my own. Her views turned my stomach. I never saw her (or my sister) again after that.

I would object to her views each time she aired them and was shot down with racist nonsense. Final straw was her reporting me to the police for not agreeing with her views. Apparently it made me a terrorist supporter.

You just can't argue with, or educate, people like that. I tried. 🤷‍♀️

@nottherealslimshady

Gammon is the word you're looking for.

I find that people do get more right wing as they get older. I'd constantly have to challenge my Mother once she got past 75. We are second generation immigrants and so were her two husbands. Her critical thinking seemed to decline.

I used to keep calm while challenging her and get her to work through it, so she got it. If you can't do that then you need to agree to not discuss certain subject matters and if it comes up by accident, it gets shut down straight away.

"Gammon is the word you're looking for."

Is there an equivalent for black, racist, homophobic, sexist people?

If you don’t like it (understandably) you’ll have to stop taking your kids there.

It is not unusual in the elderly though, and in some ways, it is useful to demonstrate to your DC's that people can change as they get older. It really depends on the age of the DC's I suppose.

My DC's got used to my DM and her views very early on, it gave them a robust tolerance, and also the ability to challenge views they didn't agree with.

DM is also an immigrant, white European. She is, however, generally horrible about everyone, not necessarily by colour or ethnicity or race, but often just about people she doesn't like. Unfortunately she often uses their background or race to underline her dislike.

It became very difficult to find anyone acceptable when she wanted a carer for example. The list of those acceptable was pretty short.

So, long story short, I don't think you should go NC, but do challenge her, and allow your DC's to challenge her too. It's a good life lesson.

The price a lot of grandparents are having to pay for Brexit is family feuds. It's very hard to explain to someone who has just turned 18 that their losing European citizenship is actually something they need to to really be glad about.

@Ponoka7

"Gammon is the word you're looking for."

Is there an equivalent for black, racist, homophobic, sexist people?

I'd guess not since racism is far less of an issue in nationalities that are targets of racism themselves. Racism only goes down the chain of power, you cant be racist against the majority or a group of people who have more power than you. Like we dont need "white lives matter" "straight pride" or the "masculism movement" it's not discrimination against whites, heterosexuals or men to not have those things. An you dont get to be offended if theres a mean name for someone who has vile views, if you're racist, sexist, homophobic etc then you dont get to be offended that there's a derogatory name for you too.

Depends how old your children are. One of my strong childhood memories was my mother's reaction when she saw my great aunt, who she'd just delivered to her coach home, get up and change seats because she realised she was sitting next to a BAME woman.

There may be an advantage to seeing a strong parental rebuttal of racist views rather than simply being isolated from them.

I think it's good for DC to see disagreement modelled over important topics. Do you want them to grow up unable to handle differences in opinion?

If you don't see them often, I'd say grin and bear it. If you do, I agree with the advice to pack up your kids and leave every time they come out with a prejudiced comment. Maybe after one warning like you would give a toddler.

It's doing your kids the best to be exposed to real life that includes people with views similar to your parents.

Your kids are not going to be brainwashed. They hear your views on a daily basis. In any case, it's not unheard of kids ending up with very different views to their parents and its rarely due to listening to grand parents.

They can love their grandparents and respect them without believing everything they hear from them.

Personally I think a lot of the current conflict in the US - and to a lesser extent UK - over the past few years has come about because decent people have "been kind" and indulged those that hold disgusting views - because any view which starts by treating someone as somehow less human than you is disgusting.

Rather than "putting up" with these scum, they need to be called out every fucking time Until they learn to keep their bile vile to themselves.

If otherwise good grandparents
You are simply absolutely honest with the children.

“Granny and grandpa are speaking utter nonsense! Crazy talk. Ignore ignore ignore”

Do it as soon as they say something racist.

They will probably stop talking such nonsense

* If you don't see them often, I'd say grin and bear it. *

Please don’t do this

Controversial I know, but I really wouldn't go NC over this...and I'm forrin' and a die-in-the-last-ditch Remainer. They can say what they want, if they accept that you will contest it. There's something to be said for modelling firm & articulate but polite disagreement. My PILs are very conservative evangelicals with interesting opinions on evolution and LGBTness and thats always the basis we've worked on with them, and nothing has come up in earshot of the DC. As our DC get older we can all work through their grandparents 'interesting' views when / if appropriate .

Ponoka7 - I find that people do get more right wing as they get older

Beware of generalisations. I’m 60 and loathe and detest the Tories even more than I did at 30, 40 or indeed 50. My DM is 97, served in WW2 and voted Remain.

OP, YANBU