DGs' bigoted views around DC

[motherxmas]

Just taken DC to DG for a quick socially distanced visit - them inside and us outdoors.

The topic turned to Brexit and essentually my parents came out with yet again a load of racist and bigoted views regarding certain Europeans etc...it got quite heated and i told them in no uncertain words that i did not want these things discussed around DC. My parents' response was they are entitled to say what they like and kids need to get used to it.

We ourselves are migrants and came here thirty years ago but over the last few years my parents have effectively adopted DM as their go to newspaper.

I am not happy with a put up and shut up approach but not sure how best to manage it.....

Also I highly doubt yelling at them or cutting them off is going to change their opinions, any more than them yelling at you or cutting you off would change yours. Constructive conversation might, especially as IME a good percentage of anti-immigrant stuff is based on completely hypothetical mental pictures of 'immigrants' people have. I've literally known people bitch about 'Eastern Europeans' in the abstract while getting on really well with their Polish neighbours. Its like they just don't join the dots

@SomewhereEast

Also I highly doubt yelling at them or cutting them off is going to change their opinions, any more than them yelling at you or cutting you off would change yours. Constructive conversation might, especially as IME a good percentage of anti-immigrant stuff is based on completely hypothetical mental pictures of 'immigrants' people have. I've literally known people bitch about 'Eastern Europeans' in the abstract while getting on really well with their Polish neighbours. Its like they just don't join the dots

Changing their opinion isn’t the issue

It’s the poison seeping in to the children

They can say what they like but it's up to you to call them out or take the kids home and explain why.

My parents are disgusting racists and homophobes and it's part of the reason I am NC. My kids are old enough to know and see racism irl but it's my job to protect them from hearing this sort of thing until they can separate loving family and disgusting views issues.

I'd consider it the perfect opportunity to show your children that while everyone is entitled to an opinion, racist, sexist, homophobic and transphobic ones should be disregarded and challenged.

"DC, grandma is talking utter rubbish, what she is saying is racist and completely untrue."

Call them out every single time.

I voted leave myself. However after 20 minutes of my mum ranting at me down the phone about "the Europeans" today and how they'd destroyed our fishing industry and every other industry I asked her what made her so personally miserable/angry about it and that it wasn't as bad as she made out. She said she couldn't speak to me when I'm like this and put the phone down on me!

I voted leave for sound reasons, I just don't see the need to be vicious/obsessive about it and bring up all manner of shit that is probably untrue. I do think lockdown has played a massive part in Daily Mail readers having nothing else to do and anything to do with Europe/Marcus Rashford feeding children/ mental health awareness seems to upset them!

I don't know what to do about my own DM now OP so I feel your pain.

What sort of twat starts discussing racist views when their grandchildren are visiting. I mean wouldn’t you ask them about their friends/school/Christmas - whatever. But no, racism/brexit is the preferred topic

I would reduce contact and if that doesn't work consider not visiting with the children.
I'm sure you've already pointed out that they're talking about themselves, you and their dgc.of course your DPS can say what they like. And you can take your children where you like which may mean not to them.

I'm 3rd generation mixed Indian, Chinese English. I look white. Some of the stuff people have said to me not realising is sickening. I always try to tackle it and often point out my heritage. Once asked someone whether they chop me up and send me back in a proportionate way or whether they'd do something different with the likes of me

If your children are aware of their heritage (or are likely to become aware) your parents views will certainly be very confusing for them and could be damaging if not tackled correctly.

You could always use it as an educational opportunity, I guess. Talk to the kids on the way home, discuss and debrief. Next time, when they start up, you could continue the discuss and debrief in a very interested manner with your kids, rather than listening, or having them listening to their nonsense.

If they get upset about this, say you're just as entitled to your opinions, and to state them, and they'd better get used to that. It goes both ways.

Or alternatively, perhaps everyone could agree to disagree, like well brought up adults, and talk about less contentious topics. . .

Or alternatively, perhaps everyone could agree to disagree

Sorry, but if your view is that all #### are #### and need to be #### and #### back to #### then fuck you, and fuck your views. There's no "disagreeing" with racism, and sexism as if they are in anyway a valid alternative to not being racist or sexist.

You can agree to disagree over pronouncing "scone". Not over whether the colour of someones skin makes them inferior or not.

My nana would be like this but we just shut it down. eg when she came out of hospital
Us "how was the hospital were all the doctors nice?"
N "grand enough but there were so many blacks. Why do you think they work there? Can you believe the amount of...
Us cutting in "Nana we're not talking about this" and a swift change of subject.
We probably contextualise it too much as she is 88 with hints of dementia and lives in rural NI which isn't known for its diversity! We're not going to cut her off and I know if my little brother came to hers with a black girlfriend she'd be welcoming but confused.
You can shut off ignorant comments and have a laugh about them afterwards but it's a completely different story eg if your kids are half Polish and their grandparents are going on about "bloody Poles stealing our jobs".

@SerendipityJane

Or alternatively, perhaps everyone could agree to disagree

Sorry, but if your view is that all #### are #### and need to be #### and #### back to #### then fuck you, and fuck your views. There's no "disagreeing" with racism, and sexism as if they are in anyway a valid alternative to not being racist or sexist.

You can agree to disagree over pronouncing "scone". Not over whether the colour of someones skin makes them inferior or not.

Pardon?

These are elderly family members. These are family members parents and grandparents.The reality is that these can be very entangled and complicated relationships.

With 'friends' who have expressed such views, I totally agree, and have told many to fuck off and take their views with them. I'm damned if I would with my mother or my father. However, I told my mother that I wasn't prepared to discuss a very contentious racially charged topic unless she'd read a particular book, and then, sure, I'd have a conversation with her.

To her credit, she actually read that book, has done a complete 180, and now rather despises her friends expression of the same views she once firmly espoused.

I wouldn't be prepared to sit there and listen to their crap, without challenge or comment, or for my kids to do so. I do, unfortunately, have some racist, homophobic bigots in my family. I'm not cutting my family off. It's been very useful for my kids for us to have the discussion about why X believes y, what we believe, what do you think, what do you think about x believing y (well Mum, he seems a bit of an ignorant bellend, if you want my opinion, I can't stand him, yes dear, quite agree). These people do exist, and sometimes they're in our family.

My dad and my inlaws would be like this. The kids just ignore and roll their eyes. As I tell my kids - they are entitled to their view but that's not what I believe

Honestly - your kids will be far more influenced by their peers than the GPs. They will work out for themselves their views are bigoted. Whether they have any value as grandparents is up to you but I think kids are quite able to ignore or even challenge these views when they get older

I think that amongst your family is one of the best places to learn there are arseholes in this world and the best ways to deal with them

I'd also consider racist close relatives a personal failing

My FIL is like this. The DSs have always been party to debates about this, that and the other (Brexit being the most predominant topic) and they've seen DH and me arguing our own POVs.

Couldn't have been prouder than this summer when they took their Grandpa on on their own terms after he started with some xenophobic nonsense and held their own.

I would avoid topics like this and if they say somehting you have to say I disagree and please lets not discuss this or we will have to leave.

I'd also consider racist close relatives a personal failing

Really? I consider it the result of all people having the right to their own opinion, and some are quite ill-educated or wilfully ignorant, and some are just arseholes? Outside of my kids, myself and my husband, that is.

I don't have to have everyone around me in the same echo chamber. That doesn't mean I support their views, or give any sort of credence or air-time to them. I'm well known in my family as not being the one to talk to on particular topics, unless you want your pathetic little arse handed to you on a well worded platter.

@SomewhereEast

Also I highly doubt yelling at them or cutting them off is going to change their opinions, any more than them yelling at you or cutting you off would change yours. Constructive conversation might, especially as IME a good percentage of anti-immigrant stuff is based on completely hypothetical mental pictures of 'immigrants' people have. I've literally known people bitch about 'Eastern Europeans' in the abstract while getting on really well with their Polish neighbours. Its like they just don't join the dots

Its not about changing their opinion. Its about normalizing those beliefs. If children are exposed to those beliefs then it becomes normal to them

I find it so ironic when immigrants adopt nativist and racist mentalities. The very same mentalities that gave them hell when they first arrived. How quickly they forget. I have family members like this and it drives me mad.

If they are good and decent to your children I wouldn't go nc either. Just keep challenging them each time and especially around your D.C.

*Really? I consider it the result of all people having the right to their own opinion, and some are quite ill-educated or wilfully ignorant, and some are just arseholes? Outside of my kids, myself and my husband, that is.

I don't have to have everyone around me in the same echo chamber. That doesn't mean I support their views, or give any sort of credence or air-time to them. I'm well known in my family as not being the one to talk to on particular topics, unless you want your pathetic little arse handed to you on a well worded platter.*

Yeah, close family, definitely

Other people, not so much

I think people should think whatever they want, I grew up with racist parents, they came to love the family I married into because MOST racist people IME are capable of being shown otherwise.

I have friends and acquaintances who are racist, we talk about disco or football. I think you can have opinions on multiculturalism, on politics, on economics or whatever, but you're wrong or you're right even it comes to discrimination against an entire people based on racial prejudice. Have some faith in your convictions

*when it comes to discrimination

Oh, and I'm very much of the 'everyone has a right to an opinion, to express their opinion, but equally everyone has a right to an opinion on your opinion and to express that opinion' school of thought.

I can listen and talk with people who have differing opinions to me. If they are prepared to do the same with me. Robustly, and respectfully.

Thank you very much to everyone for expressing their opinion. I find this to be a particularly emotive topic both because I expect more of my parents but also because they are essentially completely ill-informed despite both being PhDs, understanding the importance of knowledge and information etc. But it seems that in their old age they have come to disregard both of these things when it's anything to do with the social and political and outside their narrow field of research.

In addition, I don't want my kids to take on their views. Both because they are offensive and factually incorrect. I never bring up any of these topics with them but whenever we go around - a couple of times a week they like to discuss them with us. Guess we will need to find a way of managing it.

OP, I'd be very surprised if your kids took on their views. They'd look to you before they looked to their GP's for guidance and influence. But use their views to help guide them, into what you believe is the correct outlook - and also to help them learn how to deal with such people, because there's still quite a few of them, and sadly, it's not just the older generation. . .

Your parents are right that they can say what they like.

They are wrong in their assumption that 'the kids need to get used to it'.

They need nothing of the sort. I had an uncle whom I loved dearly but who was racist, and I tried to tell myself it was just a difference of opinion, that he could say whatever he wanted under his own roof, that it needn't affect my relationship with him even though I found some of his views very distasteful. It got so wearing that I started visiting him less. Then much less.

I don't want my DC exposed to attitudes like this.