EU blackmailing the UK

[houseinthesnow]

So it comes to pass. The EU have decided unless we agree to their unreasonable demands they will halt all travel, including air and road travel whilst still fishing in our waters apparently!

It is nothing short of piracy.

The true nature of the EU has been exposed for some time, hence our departure - but now no one can be any doubt just to the levels they will sink to.
The EU have no interest in trade relations, nor cooperation, they only seek control and power. The trading relations is and was always, window dressing to create a superstate - and it seems they are now not afraid to inflict as much damage as possible to stop a member leaving.
Even the most passionate remainer will now see how deeply disturbing this behaviour actually is.

One could argue it is an act of war in fact.

It should be treated as such.

I will happily eat beans to the end of my days than be blackmailed by the EU. We all knew it would get nasty at the end, but who they knew they were capable of this. I suppose we can't be that surprised given the past. The gloves are off now for sure - and that goes both ways we should remind them.

Hard hats on.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The gap between rich and poor is on Dickensian levels.'

Dickensian .

We have an excellent welfare state. Please let's not get carried away, there's no 'Dickensian levels'.

There are cafes having to give free breakfasts and packed lunches to schoolkids where I live because their parents have nothing.

You have people committing suicide because they can't afford their bills.

There are naice families having to stay in homeless units with people with drug and alcohol issues because they've lost their jobs.

There has never been more people on welfare.

Do you know that for a single parent of 1, people are living on handouts of £800 per month (which sounds generous until you realise that this is to cover all bills, mortgages, rent, clothes, food.)? Do you know that people have to get handouts for clothes to wear to job interviews because nothing fits them due to eating one tiny meal a day?

Do you know that immigrant children are being prostituted and have been for years? Do you know that human trafficking in the UK is at an all time peak? Did you know about the rising levels of gun crime outside of London?

It might not be worthy of Dickens, but it is grim.

@DGRossetti, I can't agree with your "I'm not as thick as I sound" because I don't recall where you've sounded thick in your posts.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/5bd32460-4521-11e9-b168-96a37d002cd3 Link is probably behind a paywall but google “The Populist Playbook” and you should be able to access the article I was quoting from.

And as always, this is ticking away ...

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

(plus the less oft quoted bit - maybe we're twixt selfishness and complacency)

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

[quote Zilla1]@DGRossetti, I can't agree with your "I'm not as thick as I sound" because I don't recall where you've sounded thick in your posts.[/quote]
I can't see any benefit in Brexit. Ergo, I'm a bit dim.

I was /am a Remainer 100% but I really don't understand the attitude of some of the posters here. If there is a No Deal Brexit - then we all lose - Uk and Europe. There are no winners - no 'we were right all along etc..'. When we leave the EU it will be poorer for it because we were members are no longer. I never thought the EU would give us a deal and so was very keen to stay in. If Europe and the Uk want to destroy themselves then they are doing a good job.

@DGRossetti, that seems to play down the effect or possibility of actions by external parties, though I suppose you could argue a robust society would be impervious to such influences.

@Staffy1

Thanks to that odious little twerp Macron.

Meanie Meanie Macron. Wahh.

French soverignty is a horrid thing. I mean he's not even an MEP or EU commissioner or anything and he's bossing everyone around.

@DGRossetti, you might not see any benefits yet but perhaps you have a philosophical preference to the evidence of your own eyes. Once you and everyone else are warmed by the sunny uplands....

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The gap between rich and poor is on Dickensian levels.'

Dickensian .

We have an excellent welfare state. Please let's not get carried away, there's no 'Dickensian levels'.

Is fascinating how little people understand the reality of this country. Are they ignorant, lying or genuinely confused?

Poverty is extreme for too many.

Yes some starve. That mother in Glasgow recently for example.

@atotalshambles

I was /am a Remainer 100% but I really don't understand the attitude of some of the posters here. If there is a No Deal Brexit - then we all lose - Uk and Europe. There are no winners - no 'we were right all along etc..'. When we leave the EU it will be poorer for it because we were members are no longer. I never thought the EU would give us a deal and so was very keen to stay in. If Europe and the Uk want to destroy themselves then they are doing a good job.

I don't understand what you don't understand? I completely agree that a No Deal Brexit will be disastrous. And I won't be in the least comforted by having been proved right.

That is of course a tragic case zilla but from this article it says:

"Mr Graham was found dead on 20 June 2018. His Employment and Support Allowance and Housing Benefit had been stopped in October 2017 because he had not attended what is known as a Work Capability Assessment on 31 August 2017. The DWP made a telephone call, sent a text, and made two safeguarding visits, but Mr Graham did not respond"

It is true benefits are stopped if people don't attend assessments or respond to phone calls, we all know that. To suggest people frequently starve to death is patently untrue. He had mh problems and perhaps others should have noticed his condition rather than blaming it on the welfare state.

[quote Zilla1]@DGRossetti, that seems to play down the effect or possibility of actions by external parties, though I suppose you could argue a robust society would be impervious to such influences.[/quote]
Not really sure if it's true or not.

but it's a way of looking at things - another viewpoint.

Not welcome here, of course, but TFIF and all that.

Certainly it doesn't map directly onto the Roman Empire - which arguably we are still intimately descended from. My personal feeling is we are close to the end of the Republic, and moving towards the establishment of a(nother) "empire". Is Boris Augustus ? Pretty certain there are enough perverts and narcissists in the Tory party to fill in for Tiberious and Caligula before we descend into the madness of Nero and beyond.

Still, as plebs, it will be amusing seeing the Praetorian guard make a habit of removing emperors. Is that a fate that awaits Boris ?

@BefuddledPerson
You do know that when we look at society numbers do count. Saying Dickensian when about 0.01% is effected (made up number) is very misleading to say the least.

Yes, there is a problem in the UK, as well as around everywhere in the world. Do we like it: no.

But the wast majority of people in the UK do live in relative wealth. Even if you look at how poverty is measured it is quite obvious that being in poverty here and in romania are 2 very-very different levels...
So pls. refrain from dickensian and over exaggerating.

Yes, our tearducts are flooded, let's see the facts and draw conclusions from that.

@houseinthesnow

It should be playing on your mind too woah if you cared about the country that is, which you don't, because you probably don't live here.

How did you incorrectly deduce I dont live in the UK, from a post I made? How does your mind work??

@houseinthesnow how did you incorrectly I dont care about the UK? You sound crazy.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

That is of course a tragic case zilla but from this article it says:

"Mr Graham was found dead on 20 June 2018. His Employment and Support Allowance and Housing Benefit had been stopped in October 2017 because he had not attended what is known as a Work Capability Assessment on 31 August 2017. The DWP made a telephone call, sent a text, and made two safeguarding visits, but Mr Graham did not respond"

It is true benefits are stopped if people don't attend assessments or respond to phone calls, we all know that. To suggest people frequently starve to death is patently untrue. He had mh problems and perhaps others should have noticed his condition rather than blaming it on the welfare state.

Really??

The hint is in the name: Welfare.

It clearly didn't look after his welfare.

troll

1. Our services and housing level ARE at breaking point due to the endless numbers, you can not build or finance yourself out of an endless stream of millions. It is impossible. You clearly have never lived in Spain, I have, for many years and their public services are absolutely dire!! France is not much better, but admittedly can retire at a ridiculous age. Every wealthy country will have similar problems, but ours are made worse by the lack of space. Why do we have huge jungles in Calais, supposedly an amazing country - why come here if is better there?

You and I both know the answer.

2. You couldn't actually answer the welfare problem could you. It is a massive mulitmillion pound racket you are paying for. So you best find a solution quickly, there are homeless families that live in the UK with no hope of finding a home! It is okay for you, but what about them, and the many thousands like them?? Our welfare state WAS fit for purpose when it was looking after the people it was intended for, and not half of Europe!

3. We can't discriminate if people are coming here to work more cheaply can we! No. So you answered your own question.

4. You clearly have no idea whatsoever of the thousands of laws we have to abide by that were not made here, but in Brussels! No idea clearly

5. You seem to struggle also to understand why EU criminals are free to live here even after serious offences. These are things you should know about!

6. We joined the EU to have friendly trading relations, NOT political control. You have a strange idea that we joined the EU to avoid being a coloniser?! We have not been a 'coloniser' for nearly one hundred years!

7. You clearly have no answer to that either!

8. We differ on our view of prospects, we will see in ten years which one of us is right

9. The EU were always overriding our concerns, our issues - always wanting to make the state bigger and bigger, and for what purpose exactly?

10. We will be an independent country, so if you see it is unequal now is your chance to change it at long last.

11. I disagree we were paying so much - the returns just were not there and declining fast.

12. We will agree to disagree.

You have no place living here if you do not want the best for this country, if you are not prepared to stand up for it, to care about it. I suggest you do some travelling and go and live in a few different countries, then come back and see if you feel the same way. You sound entitled, ungrateful and lacking in any positivity whatsoever. An asset I am sure we can do without.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

There is considerable poverty, and there are regular reports and media articles and TV programmes. You only have to speak to any vicar, headteacher, GP to hear of first-hand knowledge of these issues.

It seems you're living in a world of make-believe.

Certainly there appeared to be a MH dimension to that case though I vaguely recall DWP were fully aware of the MH dimension and possibly did not follow their own policies and procedures when they handled his case. I've not seen the outcome of the Serious case panel though vaguely recall the Coroner's recommendation.

Without checking the posts, did you just add 'frequently' to starve to death when @onlythepianoplayer said literally, not frequently?

OP, thank you for you long list, some of which I can see you may consider a benefit but I asked for tangible and irrefutable, not 'stuff that leavers think'. Most of it is hope and hearsay. Some of it is simply incorrect. None of it is evidence of a clear and tangible benefit of Brexit.

Others have tackled your list already but can I just thank you for the sweet, sweet gift of the vignette about your cleaner sending money back to Eastern Europe? I'd love to know how much you paid her. I wonder why you didn't give that job to a Brit, though, or someone from the Commonwealth?

Still, you can now, so that's good news I guess.

You have no place living here if you do not want the best for this country

Aaaaaand there we have it folks. They always give themselves away in the end.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

That is of course a tragic case zilla but from this article it says:

"Mr Graham was found dead on 20 June 2018. His Employment and Support Allowance and Housing Benefit had been stopped in October 2017 because he had not attended what is known as a Work Capability Assessment on 31 August 2017. The DWP made a telephone call, sent a text, and made two safeguarding visits, but Mr Graham did not respond"

It is true benefits are stopped if people don't attend assessments or respond to phone calls, we all know that. To suggest people frequently starve to death is patently untrue. He had mh problems and perhaps others should have noticed his condition rather than blaming it on the welfare state.

What is the welfare state if it doesn't include social care provision and safeguarding? A lack of response after two safeguarding visits? That doesn't sound like there was much safeguarding going on...

You know, at risk of being accused of 'nitpicking' at the purpose of safeguarding...
...the point of safeguarding to ensure that the person you are guarding against harm is actually safe rather than 'unresponsive' to visits.

I don't really think this is being too pedantic.

You have 3 chairs and 4 children.

1. Get another chair
2. Get rid of a child.

Voting Tory is 2, by the way. People do this out of a horror that there's a tiniest weeniest little chance that the 4th child might not "deserve" it.

Remember when it was pointed out to Cameron that the only way he could reduce benefits to EU citizens in the UK was to reduce those benefits to UK citizens too, he didn't hesitate. He didn't even ask anyone on these threads. #PunishThePoor has always been official Tory policy. Even if it costs money (which it does). Far better to spend £10 teaching the damned underclass their place than £5 on helping them to learn and pay more into society in all ways. Far better.

'Yes some starve. That mother in Glasgow recently for example.'

www.thenational.scot/news/18777921.mercy-baguma-home-office-probed-death-asylum-seeker-glasgow/

She died of alcohol poisoning, her son was starving as he'd tragically been left alone with her for days before her body was discovered.

Of course people live in relative poverty (certainly not Dickensian) but they aren't starving to death.