EU blackmailing the UK

[houseinthesnow]

So it comes to pass. The EU have decided unless we agree to their unreasonable demands they will halt all travel, including air and road travel whilst still fishing in our waters apparently!

It is nothing short of piracy.

The true nature of the EU has been exposed for some time, hence our departure - but now no one can be any doubt just to the levels they will sink to.
The EU have no interest in trade relations, nor cooperation, they only seek control and power. The trading relations is and was always, window dressing to create a superstate - and it seems they are now not afraid to inflict as much damage as possible to stop a member leaving.
Even the most passionate remainer will now see how deeply disturbing this behaviour actually is.

One could argue it is an act of war in fact.

It should be treated as such.

I will happily eat beans to the end of my days than be blackmailed by the EU. We all knew it would get nasty at the end, but who they knew they were capable of this. I suppose we can't be that surprised given the past. The gloves are off now for sure - and that goes both ways we should remind them.

Hard hats on.

OMG I'm so shocked the whole of the EU has more power than little us

Good idea, let's declare war on them all! We could totally win.

I could dissect your rant, point by point and show you just how inaccurate and ridiculous it actually is. But I honestly can't be arsed. Thanks to you lot my FIL has lost his job, my DH has lost his long term contract, my business is under threat, my children's future has been limited and I'm stuck on this backwards facing little island with you.

Do fuck right off, I'd take 100 Europeans over someone like you - only I can't now, can I?

What absolute nonsense. The EU has been endlessly bloody patient with our appalling behaviour.

It’s not about who is superior, it’s about who has more need for a deal with the other.

No country in the world needs a deal so much that they're going to let another country regulate their domestic industry. (Assuming that's what the EU is proposing.)

WTO terms aren't the end of the world. (I say that as a remainer.)

I guess what's happened is that the EU have been unwilling to contemplate any middle-ground between WTO and full-EU membership trading relationship. (Where the latter means treating us in some respects like we never left, but in other respects worse than if we had remained.) There is an infinity of possible relationships between the two that should have been workable, if they could have been arsed to work them out. But they were under no obligation to be arsed, I suppose. It would feel like a lot of unnecessary work, where their are two existing frameworks that each more or less work in their own right, to make up a third, just to accommodate one country.

With hindsight I wish they hadn't engaged in negotiations, they should have just told the UK to pick one or the other. (Perhaps that has been their position all along, but it feels like a lot of time and energy has been wasted on the illusion that a third way might be found.)

Surely that argument should be symmetrical?

The relationship isn’t symmetrical. The EU (without us) consists of 27 countries with a combined population of about 450 million, whereas we have a population of just under 70 million. So there’s an asymmetry of size.
More importantly, EU laws that govern trade and commerce, government support for business, environmental and working standards and freedom of movement were developed while we were members of the EU, with considerable input. We have now left and introduced asymmetry by wanting to depart from these standards and regulations. There’s no requirement for the bloc we have left to align with anything we want to do, as we made the break. Of course, the reason we want to depart from these standards (and queer the so-called “level playing field”) is purely in order to gain competitive advantage, which is why the EU is keen to discourage it where it would impact on its own markets. So yes, we could make widgets under slave labour conditions while polluting the environment with the effluent from our factories and sell said widgets into whichever market would accept that - but we could not sell into the EU.

The worrying thing is that there are those who would consider poor labour conditions and widespread pollution as entirely reasonable in the interests of turning a large profit, and it is their interests which drove Brexit.

I think you need to go back to school... you can’t compare percentages like that. Of course the % of EU trade will be lower but that doesn’t tell us the volume or value of that trade.

Ridiculous argument 😂😂

@BefuddledPerson

@MagicSummer, yes and don't let anyone deceive you with talk that the EEC or EU always was a political project. They'll mention some muffins about coal or steel or flat caps and ferrets and some such Northern things. They'll say next that we had more control over those centralised rules when we were a member. Tosh. If it were easy, we'd have had the right sort of free movement.

Over the land, this blackmail will just lead to chants of refund refund refund. We want our £350m a week back dated to the seventies.

3 weeks to go.

Tick tock tick tock

So yes, we could make widgets under slave labour conditions while polluting the environment with the effluent from our factories and sell said widgets into whichever market would accept that - but we could not sell into the EU. The worrying thing is that there are those who would consider poor labour conditions and widespread pollution as entirely reasonable in the interests of turning a large profit, and it is their interests which drove Brexit

It's actually quite offensive that you think UK manufacturers would do this.

The EU announced that it would be appointing a Chief Trade Enforcement Officer to oversee commitments made under trade agreements a year ago (especially in light of tougher carbon trading regulations coming in).

Who didn’t read the room?

No sovereign country would sign up to these things. except Norway and Switzerland. But look how poor that made them.

this is just daft trolling but I hope you enjoy your beans.

Why does it have to come to this screeching and howling? I'm a very staunch remainer - though I worked in the European Parliament in Brussels for a while and felt some reforms would have been a great idea, I think the benefits of being in the EU far outweigh the negatives.

But the vote came. I was gutted. Still am gutted. Remember a post a couple of years back which said 'we just have to put our shoulders to the wheel and get on with making this work' and I thought, yes, ok, I want our country to succeed, but what wheel and how do we make it work? I can't believe that we still don't have the answer to these questions. 'Prepare for a no-deal Brexit', was the government message to 'the public and businesses' this morning. How? From the research done by posters here, sounds like stocking up on beans would be a good start.

I think if the level of discourse was more reasonable and sensible, we'd have been able to say, look, we're in the middle of a pandemic, with an economic shock not seen in 300 years, could we perhaps extend the negotiations into next year and work on a temporary arrangement? But no. That would make Johnson a traitor, or something.

It's just all so stupid. They even offered an extension to the negotiations and we turned it down this week. This is a staggeringly complex situation, we can't just be ready for it by saying so. If we must do this, why can't we do it properly and sensibly?

My Venezuelan friend said to me last year that she thought we were throwing ourselves into a situation like the one that made her flee, where her doctor parents couldn't afford to eat, and the middle class disappeared. I didn't believe her. But now, I'm concerned that's actually what some people want. 'I'll eat beans to the end'. Good grief.

The EU will suffer, and probably crumble, if we make a go of Brexit. Of course they will do anything to make it difficult for us*

Are british people really this stupid? Really?

Are british people really this stupid? Really?

You don't get it do you.

It's actually quite offensive that you think UK manufacturers would do this.

What do you think was going on in those Leicester factories?

news.sky.com/story/exploited-workers-in-leicester-textile-factories-denied-millions-every-week-in-unpaid-wages-12100941

Lol meanwhile I'm waiting patiently for the time we join the club again in the future. The younger generation will ensure it. 😊

It's actually quite offensive that you think UK manufacturers would do this.

I don't think it's offensive at all. It might not happen, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

@cdtaylornats

Are you also on glue I’m not going to change my German car. I don’t think Mercedes, Audi, Volkswagen and bMw are shitting themselves and even with tariffs I’m happy with my German car.

French farmers how much French meat or produce do you buy now. I would hazard a guess of not much? As for French fisheries they buy the majority of our fish if they have to pay tariff. Do you think our fishermen are going to be able to charge a higher or lower price bearing in mind most of our fish is bought fresh and the Brits don’t eat it.

Italian wine and fashion again do you think the people who can afford to buy Italian fashion are going to care if it’s a little more expensive, the same with wine. I not going to stop drinking Pinot Grigio if it’s a £1 more expensive to cover a tariff.

However businesses over here are moving their mind out of the U.K. and changing their mo d about creating jobs here and who do you think that’s going to affect??

But even an oven-ready deal needs an oven. and a cook. If the spiteful EU are going to smash up the oven then the best-laid plans of mice and men...

Ok, I’ll bite. Please tell me about the oven-ready deal, and how the EU has ‘smashed up the oven’.

I will give you a clue - there was never any oven-ready deal. The parties were miles apart then, and they’re miles apart now. Boris lied (again), and you fell for it (again).

@everybodysang, but this talk of extensions. traps more like. the EU are notorious for the delays in negotiations (ask Canada) so we've beaten them by leaving everything to the last minute. Bingo.

@houseinthesnow Totally agree with you 100% !!! I have always hated the corrupt EU and hope one day more countries follow our example and leave!!

I suppose all those businesses that Leavers believe will be harshly impacted by the UK flouncing away with no deal, have been sitting around for the last four years, twiddling their thumbs and waiting with baited breath to hear what our sovereign nation decides ?
Or they may have been doing what their respective countries suggested and spent the time getting ready for the possibility of no deal. So sourcing things they need from other companies within the EU or finding new customer bases.

They are all well aware of what will happen in the event of a no deal and will have prepared accordingly, not sure the same can be said here, given the Government has been very tardy with information and systems to date. Check what ? Change what ? Go where ? is what UK businesses are asking.

20 days to go.

is purely in order to gain competitive advantage, which is why the EU is keen to discourage it where it would impact on its own markets

Genuine question, as we are small compared to the EU market why are they worried about us having competitive advantage? The view on here seems to be we will lower our standards over time so the EU won’t accept our products in their market.
Surely they will just start producing most of the stuff we export anyway? I can’t think of many things, apart from something like Scottish Whisky which I assume has a protected brand due to its origin (like champagne).
In which case they probably don’t need us at all? Does anyone know why the EU hasn’t just walked away from these negotiations?