To Think My Parents Have No Idea What Life Is Really Like?

[GreenlandTheMovie]

for most people?

DM was a teacher, DF some kind of computer repair engineer but took early retirement at 50. Yes, 50. Never worked again. Both on final salary pension schemes.

They were moaning this week about how "poor" they are, because their pensions don't entitle them to more than index-linked increases to keep up with inflation, unlike people in salaried jobs who can get actual pay rises (I haven't had much of a pay rise in the last decade but theres no telling them). Apparently, they don't have enough money to "do the things they want" without using their savings.

The "things they want to do" include having a large holiday home in France where they normally decamp 6 months of the year, having a Carribbean cruise and a holiday to China last year, similar holidays in previous years, and running their 5 bedroom house. They have a nearly new luxury motorhome and 2 cars. They have also benefitted from 2 large inheritances from relatives dying.

Theres no telling them - apparently, life is very unfair and hard on pensioners like them and retiring at 50 is not at all unreasonable because of the way the company was run.

It sounds like you've acquired your parents moaning, pity me attitude to life too

It's the cognitive dissonance, being poor and brought up on frugality then suddenly... flipping to this other extreme of spending on pointless holiday homes in France, running a large house etc. Maybe it's easier to digest if they did what they want and didnt armchair criticise so much while reminiscing about the past. They dont appreciate that people too pay in 20% into a private pensions and work long hours and will not end up anywhere near their good fortune. They have a conservative attitude that if you struggle, lets say need benefits or the food bank, you only have yourself to blame for not working harder. They dont acknowledge luck or happenstance. I dont think all boomers think that way, but mine do.

I dont want a handout, or any inheritance. After all, they did impart one good value which was to stand on my own feet (I almost want to recreate that upbringing for my own DC because they are brats!!!) I'd really like if they quit complaining and simply open their eyes.

I see promising things with the next generation. I work with younger colleagues and I had this "ugh snowflakes" misconception initially, but over time they opened my eyes to some worthy values e.g. work life balance, since we will all work longer and dont want to burnout.. less respect for hierarchies; health and wellbeing, you know drink less gym more go vegan that sort of thing; caring more about the planet because we've gone a step too far with unsustainable development and mass consumerism.

And yes they will live longer so inheritance will mostly go to cruises (why not donate, volunteer their time?!)... then care homes. Growing up my grandmother lived with us and I cooked for and bathed her when she had Alzheimers... (my parents paid me extra to)

My parents, otoh, are too full of pride and would never accept help or move in with us. They already said that to me.

@nokidshere

I don't know any older people who speak to their children the way you've described. All the parents I know help their children and acknowledge the disparity between what each generation is able to achieve. If you don't like how they are and what they say then distance yourself from them and get on with your own life.

Every single one of us, whether we like to admit it or not, would also take the advantages if they were available to us. You cannot blame a generation because things that were available to them are not available to you. And you cannot blame them for taking full advantage of what was on offer at the time.

I don't think op is blaming a generation I think she's saying that her parents think they had it hard when they didn't. She's also saying they don't realise how hard it is for young people today.

It's interesting you say you don't know anyone like that. As I've come across load sof people with op's parents attitude. Including my own and that of friends.

Wow well done your parents! And YANBU to react to their attitudes.
DM was a supposed boomer but was fucked by being a single parent in days before CSA, had house which was on crippling mortgage for single parent at 15%, lost house in recession, eventually got back on feet and did ok on property ladder but pissed it all away on a series of appalling financial decisions and basic frittering... now still works FT in public sector at age 70 with only the public sector PENSION which is also not great due to further crap choices. Mid give my eye teeth for financially sorted parent ms even if they were maddening (which DM is also!!)

NeverRTFU Well, break your habit and RTFU because there's no reason to say "well done". I strongly suspect DF was given an early retirement package at 50 because even then he was too belligerent to work with. He has a habit of being rude to people and I also don't suspect he was very good at his job. DM worked hard (and for 9 years longer than DF) but she was a teacher. Not some sort of massively high earner that today you would need to be to support the lengthy, luxurious retirement they have.

What also supports it is the early death of DF's brother and DM's family inheritance. So you are literally saying "well done" to them for that...

I do really think DM and DF would benefit from doing something other than spending and thinking about money. They have no friends any more, they are never invited anywhere, if one of them goes into hospital the other will be lost, because they only spend time with each other. But they won't engage with anyone ekelse, because in their minds they have reached the pinnacle and they have no need for anyone else. And they need to pay for a bloody gardener instead of expecting DB (who has a full time job and 3 young children) to do it all, if they insyst on living in a house with elaborate half acre gardens.

My parents bought their first house for £11k and sold the family house for £880k buying a £400k house to live in.
Retired at £65 on £20k a year.
They know they have it easier than us. I am glad they are having a good life. But can't help being a bit jealous as there is no chance this will happen for me.

Quite - this just isn’t something that will happen now. It’s also why I get annoyed when older people say to younger people that getting on the property ladder wasn’t easy for them either, because of high interest rates. OK, it may not have been easy but it was a damn sight easier than it is now! Plus they’ve often made huge amounts of money on their property in a way that won’t happen for people buying their first home today.

that’s just not true, few of the current elderly have inherited any substantial amounts because firstly home ownership was much rarer

This is true. Neither my grandparents, parents, aunts or uncles or anybody I even knew owned their own house. You had to be very wealthy indeed to have your own house. It was very uncommon indeed. I inherited nothing.

You cannot blame a generation because things that were available to them are not available to you. And you cannot blame them for taking full advantage of what was on offer at the time.

It's not even consciously 'taking advantage'. It's just how life worked at the time. It was our norm. Just as what's happening today is my daughters' norm. They don't question the ramifications to the nation of their own financial decisions. Life and renting/buying/pensions etc is what it is, and you make te best of it.
And of course back in the late 70s I don't think anyone of our age was as financially savvy as now. The information wasn't out there to be found outside the financial section of a newspaper. There was no google, and we were reliant on turning up at a mortgage brokers. We accepted whatever our employer told us re: pensions.

Now people have amazing access to information, and they use it.

This is true. Neither my grandparents, parents, aunts or uncles or anybody I even knew owned their own house.

Can we stop using anecdotal evidence? It has never been easy to own a house but it's harder now.

At the age of 27, those born in the late 1980s had a homeownership rate of 25%, compared with 33% for those born five years earlier (in the early 1980s) and 43% for those born ten years earlier (in the late 1970s)
In 1995–96, 65% of those aged 25–34 with incomes in the middle 20% for their age owned their own home. Twenty years later, that figure was just 27%.

I'm not sure home ownership decreasing over time shows that it was rarer in the past?

The OP is complaining about the attitude of her own parents, who really do sound like unpleasant people. She isn’t generalising about the ‘boomers’ generation though some posters on this thread have used it as an opportunity to air their prejudice towards elderly people of that generation. It’s par for the course on Mumsnet, sadly.

People don’t tend to change all that much, an entitled young person remains entitled when they get older. It really isn’t about age at all.

I dont begrudge anyone wealth in old age but I DO begrudge it when rich retired people put it down to all their hard work...so much harder than today's youth and frugal lifestyle rather than inheritance ( looking at you dad.)

To put it in perspective dad went on holiday for the 4th time that year and spent £700 on an ancient roman artefact. Unbeknown to him I found the email from a local museum saying it wasnt an ancient Roman artedact at all but a fake and hence worthless.
If i did sometjing like that I would never hear the end of it for " wasting my money." He dosn't know I know but I inwardly chuckle!!

Artefact...

At the age of 27, those born in the late 1980s had a homeownership rate of 25%

My parents and their peers were married circa 1940s when house ownership was less than 25% so full circle.

So full circle or rarer?

Was renting as expensive in the 40s as it is now?

Can we also please remember how much more social housing there used to be. Where as now its very difficult to get long term affordable rent. Making the cost of living a lot more for people today. Less chance of amassing savings on an income which mainly Goes on rent

Quite, there are 1.5m fewer social homes now vs 1980.

wonkschops Wed 09-Dec-20 12:55:38
Was renting as expensive in the 40s as it is now?

Probably not, BUT once you had rented an unfurnished place you had a tenancy for life, AND your rent was set not by your landlord but by a 'rent control officer'.

Who would want to be a landlord, when 1) you couldn't evict tenants 2) the rent was set by a third party. Hence, it was incredibly difficult to find a place to rent on the private market.

The '1986 Leasehold Reform Act' got rid of lifetime tenancies, rent controls were abolished, and suddenly being a landlord became an attractive proposition again.

So full circle or rarer?

Not sure what you mean. I meant you were just as unlikely to own a house in the 1940s as you are now. So not a lot of people my age have massive inheritances. Or any inheritance at all.

Oh mine too. My dad complained about paying tax on his occupational pension, ignoring the fact that his income is higher thanks to his pensions than that of many working people. He took retirement aged 57! My mum hasn't worked in years either and is only 64, yet speaks about herself as if she is an elderly, impoverished OAP struggling to keep the heating on and complains incessantly about how hard her generation have had it... I'm bored of hearing it. I have many colleagues of their age who don't come out with endless Poor Me crap and who are very fucking aware that their generation is relatively better served than those before and after them, it's not an age thing, it's an individual personality thing. Taking stupidly early retirement has aged my parents and narrowed their world and vision so very much.

But the point I originally replied to wasn't clear they were only referring to the 1940s ie 80 yrs ago. So you think home ownership in the future will increase as it did after the 1940s?

This has sent me down a rabbit hole of trying to find out the proportion of the population who rent vs buy over the decades. Couldn’t find it though so will have to stick to anecdotal evidence

The figure above seems to be for 27year olds, and again, anecdotally, I would agree that fewer 27 year old are buying now vs 20 years ago, but the difference I see is that renters in the 40s/50s/60s would tend to be lifelong renters vs today’s 27 year old renters are likely to become homeowners at some point, just a bit later than people 20-30 years older. Which makes sense due to much higher university take up so later start in the workplace, much more travelling in 20s and much later starting a family.

@wonkschops

I suppose someone could make an argument for any destination for house prices and % home ownership though which are likely seems to be difficult to judge beyond assertion and prejudice.

A progression to a mainly rental market institutionally-owned as in several affluent European nations. On a smaller scale, this could happen with the richest 1% further using buy-to-let as a vehicle for wealth generation with COVID QE2.

Increase in home ownership as Boomers' houses get sold and supply and demand equilibrium changes.

Increase in ownership as prices return to historical norms relative to earnings.

Decrease in ownership due to further reduction in relative earnings for a majority due to AI/automation/offshoring/self-driving cars and delivery vans and trucks. (I am genuinely worried about medium term employment prospects for the millions of UK workers whose jobs could be 'automatable'.

A UK government genuinely pushes increases in supply though given the vested interests in home owners and large builders to avoid erosion of prices, this will face political challenges.

Even lower home ownership due to further delays to entering the workforce after education, inflation of employment requirements (jobs now requiring Masters that previously required first degrees that previously required A levels that sometimes previously required GCSE) and delayed 'settling down' and fertility.

And many others.

If I were to guess, I'd expect the political and market pressures for constrained supply together with relatively unconstrained ability for buy to let and offshore purchases (I know tax changes make it relatively less advantageous than before but I think some other countries actively regulate and tax it directly) leads me to think % ownership is more likely to stay low or get lower. Unfortunately.

It was the norm 40-50 years ago for women to not work. They were housewives. The massive increase in house prices especially around London has benefitted them and we wont see the like of this again. They are also living far longer than before and could live 40 years after retiring. It means that if say a couple early 30's wants to buy say a 3 bed semi in say Barnes/Chiswick/Richmond they are looking at £1m. They would have to have a huge deposit and a very large salary to get anything like a mortgage on this. If they cannot afford these sorts of properties then who is living in them??