To wonder how people make it to adulthood without knowing

[Staffy1]

That a Christmas tree decoration is called a "bauble", not "ball ball"? Or how they make it through junior school without knowing the difference between "his" and "he's"? What happens in schools these days and don't people ever read anything?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” Albert Einstein.

Some people are very good at remembering spellings, and some aren’t. So what?

One of the brightest people I know (multiple A*’s) is dyslexic.

Everyone has different talents. There are almost certainly some (equally odious and judgmental) women on another corner of the internet asking how any self respecting adult does not know how to:

• keep themselves slim and healthy
• change a tire
• keep their house spotless
• do their own DIY
• dress well and do make up well
• raise their kids without any tantrums (ha!)
• earn a high salary

MN sneering at its worst. There is a lot more to life than being a good speller.

Einstein was dyslexic. So is Richard Branson. Didn’t hold them back.

If you seriously need to sneer at those who are not as good at something as you are (in this case spelling) to feel better about yourself, something is very wrong in your life.

“That is one of the most frequent errors on Mumsnet. I just don’t continue reading a post if I come across it or one of the other usual suspects. Many posters do likewise - and have said as much. Don’t forget a thread on this very issue appears weekly, probably.”

You disregard an entire post over a spelling error? What a sad, judgemental, narrow minded little view to take! I actually feel sorry for you for thinking this is a quality worth boasting about online.

The overuse of "sneer" is getting bit... 🙄
Most here aren't sneering but are simply discussing a commonly appearing issue.

These threads always turn out to be really interesting with posters discussing less known grammatical parts. I always enjoy them and my English isn't perfect🤷🏻 Though I don't have a chip on a shoulder about it.

@Janegrey333

They hear the sound reign, rein, rain. It all sounds the same.

Surely if the word is in context, only “rein” makes sense. It’s a riding metaphor. How can “reign” or “rain” be contenders?

@Janegrey333
Because so many people have not received the education you have . Maybe the day the teacher taught the different spellings and meanings for rain / reign and rein they were absent because their parents didn't value education. Some children have very poor attendance . Maybe when they took their spellings home their parents didn't support them with reading and learning them. Either because they had no interest or simply didn't have the capacity having a poor education themselves . There are so many reasons .

@SchrodingersImmigrant

The overuse of "sneer" is getting bit... 🙄 Most here aren't sneering but are simply discussing a commonly appearing issue.

These threads always turn out to be really interesting with posters discussing less known grammatical parts. I always enjoy them and my English isn't perfect🤷🏻 Though I don't have a chip on a shoulder about it.

I concur.

@Areweallsheepnow82

“That is one of the most frequent errors on Mumsnet. I just don’t continue reading a post if I come across it or one of the other usual suspects. Many posters do likewise - and have said as much. Don’t forget a thread on this very issue appears weekly, probably.”

You disregard an entire post over a spelling error? What a sad, judgemental, narrow minded little view to take! I actually feel sorry for you for thinking this is a quality worth boasting about online.

It’s not an excusable spelling error, though. Everyone makes those.

It’s something like not having a clue that effect and affect are different parts of speech or that lose and loose have different meanings, far less spellings.

I learned at school and if some people did not, for whatever reason, then surely they should try to educate themselves now. All you have to do is Google.

To clarify:
This issue is NOT about dyslexia. I’d have thought that was a given. Why is anyone mentioning that and using it to try to score points?

I learned at school and if some people did not, for whatever reason, then surely they should try to educate themselves now. All you have to do is Google

But to do that, they have to know that they’re wrong in the first place. And generally they don’t. Why would anyone bother to Google the difference between lose and loose if they’re not aware that they’re using them in the wrong context?

I think the key is to always be open to, and actively want to further your mind.
There will always be words I’m not sure of, for example for some reason I’ve always thought spendthrift meant someone miserly rather than someone generous. It was only when reading a thread here the other day I realised I’d misunderstood the word. I assumed thrift would mean being careful.

As a child I always had a dictionary, these days it takes seconds to look up words and their spellings. Depends on your drive to learn I suppose.

[quote MyristicaFragrans]@Notarealmum

Cary Grant was from Bristol.[/quote]
Oh I seeeee......I’d no idea! 😆😆

Poisoned Carrot - bloody love that. Nicking it.

"for some people words are just sounds, with no inherent meaning."

This!

Some mistakes are amusing (Thank you for "Poisoned Carrot" ) and I'm sure I make some, but I do worry who is going to look after new generations that don't know how to learn new things for themselves . It's all very well to make allowances with "Maybe they were absent that day" but you are not supposed to only know what you were taught in school.

I've had people say to me "I don't know. We didn't do that in school" as though it were forever out of their reach.

@Janegrey333 but how do you know it’s not about dyslexia? There are probably thousands of undiagnosed dyslexics, people with specific language impairments, auditory processing disorders and other learning disabilities out there, we know far more about these things today than we did even 10 years ago, it’s not a stretch that many of these people who struggle with language have been failed by a system that didn’t recognise their difficulties at school.

“The overuse of "sneer" is getting bit... 🙄
Most here aren't sneering but are simply discussing a commonly appearing issue.”

Cambridge dictionary definition of sneer - “to talk about or look at someone or something in an unkind way that shows you do not respect or approve of him, her, or it:

Eg “Is that the best you can do?" he sneered.”

If criticising and laughing at people who can’t spell as well as you can isn’t sneering than what is?!

If you enjoy sneering at other people’s (perceived) shortcomings, at least own it!

“It’s not an excusable spelling error, though. Everyone makes those.”

Says who? Who made you the spelling police!

And of course dyslexia is relevant when you’re sneering at spelling mistakes. As those with dyslexia often struggle with spelling.

[quote OwlBeThere]@Janegrey333 but how do you know it’s not about dyslexia? There are probably thousands of undiagnosed dyslexics, people with specific language impairments, auditory processing disorders and other learning disabilities out there, we know far more about these things today than we did even 10 years ago, it’s not a stretch that many of these people who struggle with language have been failed by a system that didn’t recognise their difficulties at school.[/quote]
YY, this.

I often see people on threads like this saying 'but my friend so-and-so is dyslexic and can cope, so it's no excuse'. Well, yes. I'm dyslexic and my SPaG isn't awful, but it takes a heck of a lot more effort for me to keep it at that standard, and sometimes it slips, and I'm dead lucky because I was diagnosed pretty young and given a lot of support through education.

@AdobeWanKenobi

I think the key is to always be open to, and actively want to further your mind. There will always be words I’m not sure of, for example for some reason I’ve always thought spendthrift meant someone miserly rather than someone generous. It was only when reading a thread here the other day I realised I’d misunderstood the word. I assumed thrift would mean being careful.

As a child I always had a dictionary, these days it takes seconds to look up words and their spellings. Depends on your drive to learn I suppose.

No, it doesn't mean someone generous, it means someone careless with money.

I went to school in England in the 80’s - early 90’s.. definitely remember doing spellings, but not much grammar. Most of what I know comes from reading. But my brain works that way, similarly Ds1, but dyslexic ds2 just doesn’t have a brain that works that way. We “see” words differently, and he certainly doesn’t learn by osmosis the way some of us do. I’ve been doing some grammar work with him - as I could see it was really letting down his written work - and I’ve actually learned a lot too. I could write correctly because I “knew” it, but it’s interesting learning the names and the whys of different parts of speech (I can still never remember when to use affect versus effect though!)

@SarahAndQuack I phrased that poorly. That’s what I meant.

It's interesting how much is innate isn't it? Adjectival order is the thing I'm thinking of.

We're never taught it, and there's no real reason for "the red big bag" to be wrong, but no native speaker would say it.

I received an email last week from a professional company we do business with, and the subject line said "your invited to our conference"

Ive noticed from school reports over the last decade that some teachers are becoming worse at spelling too. I wonder why?

@shinynewapple2020

In a way though , the educated and otherwise intelligent people who just can't grasp how different other people's lives are and how it is possible to grow up with less than basic literacy and general knowledge are worse than people who genuinely think that there are ball balls and Chester draws because they write what they hear.

I would suggest that instead of suggesting that others 'educate themselves' or google things that they don't know they don't know : that they make a bit of an effort themselves to understand people's lives outside of their middle class bubble (or should that be bauble ......)

Perhaps in some cases this is true, but in others this is just a shifting of blame to justify laziness.

I went to terrible schools, one of which was later closed down for being so useless. In my formative years I lived in circumstances that meet the official definition of "destitution". I had an abusive childhood. I lived alone with no parental support from when I was a teenager. And yet, I borrowed books from the library and read them. I passed all of my exams with high marks and worked and studied until I had a degree and and very good career. I also have disabilities. Of course we are not all blessed with equal starting points, but there is an undeniable element of choice involved.

Yabu. My spelling and grammar sucks as a result of chronic sleep deprivation due to a child that is a terrible sleeper.

I used to be highly articulate, but after 19 months without a single night of uninterrupted sleep I now say things like 'I goed to the park'. It is very embarrassing but not much I can do about it.

We're never taught it, and there's no real reason for "the red big bag" to be wrong, but no native speaker would say it.

But we are taught it. If a child said it, an adult would correct them to "big red bag", and if the child asked "why?" they'd probably just be told, "it's just the way it is. We get taught most of the rules as young children without being taught the metalanguage round it. Parents just correct children, "the dog ran away, not runned away." We don't tend to go into a long explanation about having to learn all the irregular past participles once they've got to grips with the regular -ed suffix on most verbs. We just repeat the words without explaining the grammar and repeat and repeat.